Financial Fitness Empowering Individuals

Welcome to Stronger Together, our new podcast series presented by Tanya O'Shea & Kate Buckland. In this second episode, we are joined by Sandy Higgins, the Support Services Manager for IMPACT Community Services. 

This month, we address the current challenges that many people are facing, such as the rising cost of living. Sandy shares practical strategies and tips on managing finances and improving financial fitness. We also discuss the importance of open conversations about money and seeking support from financial counselors. 

Sandy provides insights on how to make small changes that can lead to big impacts over time, and shares ideas on finding joy and creativity within a limited budget. We also explore strategies for tackling debt and making proactive choices to improve one's situation.

Additionally, we touch on the topic of homelessness and discuss practical strategies for individuals and families in these circumstances, such as obtaining quality tents and accessing gym facilities for showers and other amenities.

Join us as we delve into these important topics and provide valuable resources and ideas to help individuals and families navigate through challenging financial situations. Remember, we're all in this together, and together we can become stronger. 

Visit https://impact.org.au/episode-2-financial-fitness-empowering-individuals to download our resources.

Thank you for listening to this episode of "Stronger Together" We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained valuable insights.

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Transcript

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Welcome to Stronger Together, a new podcast series presented by Impact Community services I'm Tanya O'Shea, managing director of Impact with a bachelor's degree in psychology. And hi, I'm Kate Buckland. Impacts Communications Officer. With over two decades of experience as a journalist and communications professional. Impact prides itself on helping people improve their lives. And in this podcast will delve into a wide range of issues that affect our overall health and wellbeing and discuss the challenges that affect each one of us in the current social climate. The Stronger Together Podcast may contain discussions on sensitive topics that could be triggering or distressing for some listeners. Information on where to seek help and support will be provided at the end of this episode. Please prioritize your wellbeing while listening. Before we begin, we wish to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we live, work and meet. We pay our respects to the elders past, present and future, for they hold the memories, traditions, the culture, hopes and values, not only if Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, but for all Australians. Now let's dive into today's episode. Hello and welcome back to Stronger Together. Very excited to be back for episode two. Can you believe it, Kate? No, this is amazing. Thank you so much. If you're joining us again and if you're new here, welcome. Oh, we are. We are super pumped. We were just having a look. We've got a we've got a number of people who are actually subscribing. We weren't really sure how this is going to go. So we are super pumped that we're coming back for a second episode. And this week, I guess if you for those who can remember the last episode, we talked very much around mental wellbeing and practical strategies that people can take forward within using in their own, you know, their own daily routine that they can apply. So we want to remain practical because we think that's helpful. And this episode we wanted to talk very much around. We're very aware, I guess, of the current crisis, the current challenges that people are facing, particularly around cost of living, around homelessness. That just doesn't seem to be enough money, I guess, to be able to stretch to make ends meet. And that's pretty tricky. You know, when we're talking about finances, it's a bit of a taboo subject, isn't it, Kate? It is. It's one of those things when you're growing up, you're taught not to talk about, but actually it's something that we need to talk about because if we don't discuss things, we can't make things better. So today we have a guest joining us, Sandy Higgins is the services support manager for Impact Community Services. Welcome, Sandy. Thanks, Kate. Thanks Tanya, nice to be here. Sandy facilitates a financial fitness and budgeting workshop here at Impact, which is proving very useful to many people who were going through it. So we will talk about that a little bit later. But the situation is really tough at the moment, isn't it, Sandy? I think the situation's been tough for a while, but it's highlighted at the moment because of the rising rent costs, rising fuel costs and inflation. So people are finding it particularly difficult at the moment. And what are you seeing on the ground for the people that are coming through impact community services on a daily basis? What are the really big issues that they're facing in that they're needing us to help them with? Well, the main thing is they have limited income and with the rising cost of living and then some of the bulk billing medical services are no longer operational. So people are really struggling to maintain their physical and mental wellbeing as well as cope with those increased cost of living. Is it? It does sound pretty tough. You know, there's a range of different variables that are coming at people and it feels like it's coming all at once. For some people, their asked to or they're given notice. You know, they might have a rental, they're given notice because perhaps the landlord wants to move back in there or they're looking to sell. So they've got limited time available. I can remember I was sitting at a coffee shop waiting for a coffee actually, and there were a couple of young mums there talking about the same thing. You know, they, they were given notice. They had to move out. They were currently in shared accommodation, so single young mums and they were talking about, I don't know what I'm going to do. So they were just sitting there basically spitballing to try and come up with different strategies. What can we actually do to support you in this current, in this current situation? And between them, I reckon in about 3 minutes, just having the two of them just ideas going bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And we could do that. One of them went, Actually, I know someone who's going overseas and they're going for an extended period and then needing someone to house sit outside the box, just completely random. But it was just like, Let's get out of our heads, Sit down with someone who we trust or who we can just go, Hey, I need to just quickly workshop this problem, solve it. Can you help me to spitball some ideas around? You know, how I can actually manage this? And one of the things I love about Sandy Higgins is she's the best spitballer ever. And talking about financial fitness, you know, I've never thought about adding the word fitness and finance together, but I love this. We talk about fitness in so many other ways, and fitness is all about building that resilience, isn't it, Sandy? And and making sure that slowly over time, we're working ourselves to a point where we're actually feeling like, you know, we're showing up with some confidence. So so tell us more about, you know, some of the strategies that that you're actually sharing with people on the ground that they're taking away and they're using in their lives. Absolutely. So the reason I called it financial fitness is it's exactly that. It's like when you sign up to the gym and you want to increase your physical fitness, you don't go on off to the gym on your first day and smash out a heap of weights and, you know, a couple of kilometers on the treadmill. You go in on the first day, you take it slowly and you do incremental steps and you build up your routine over a number of weeks. And, you know, on the first day when you go home, you're probably feeling pretty exhausted and you think, I don't know that I want to go back and do that again. But you do. And you just go each day and work up over a number of weeks and your financial fitness is much the same. We all have limited income and unless you have the ability to go out and get a second job, you've got to work with the finances that you've got and you hit the nail on the head. Tanya, When you said those ladies in the coffee shop started to talk at talk about that problem and workshop it. And that's exactly the first step we need to take. We need to actually start having those conversations that used to be taboo, as Kate mentioned earlier, and get it all out on the table because your first step forward is admitting that you've got a bit of an issue and then start strategising. And just like the gym, work out a fitness plan to increase your financial fitness. So what we do is we first of we talk about putting it all out on the table, looking at our bills and working towards doing a budget. So that can be really scary for some people. But the reason behind it is at first, once we acknowledge what debts we've got and the limited income that we've got because there's only two ways to pay down your debt, and that is to make more money, which isn't an option for a lot of our clients or reduce what we're paying out and use that money to start paying off other debts. And so we talk about snowballing and different little ways to save money. So another thing I call it apart from financial fitness, is how to manage your money when you've got none. Because let's face it, not a lot of us have a lot of money to work with. I love that that really hits home. And I think. So you're talking about small changes that are going to build up over time. Bigger changes have a bigger impact. I am. And I'm also talking about, let's face it, you know, whether it's your gym workout that you're just starting and you've got to lose 30 kilos, if you say, I've got to go to the gym and lose 30 kilos, that's pretty daunting. And you know, you think, my goodness, how am I going to do that? And the same applies when you're starting off. You've just done your budget and you've got debt that you've got to pay down, but you don't have that extra income. So you're sitting there catastrophising and thinking, where am I going to get this extra money from? You've got debt collectors ringing you and all these different monkeys on your back that are dragging you down and it leads to depression and anxiety. So what we want to do is get people thinking in a positive way about making small incremental steps to paying down some of their debt and cutting back some of those costs. Now, some people are going to think I'm crazy because for anyone living already on a very limited income, they're going to say, how can I possibly cut back? But hopefully we can share some tips that they might be able to put into place today to just start them progressing down that track. So, Sandy, before we jump into some of those tips, because I'm super excited to hear what these are going to be, because at the moment I've just heard what you've said and it just feels so it feels overwhelming. Like there's this huge I can already feel the load Just in talking then about, you know, debt after debt. Not sure where to go with it stuck. We're also in a society, I guess, that there's this instant gratification that we see. Absolutely. And when things are going south, like not going so well sometimes we're also looking for some sort of buzz, you know, because as humans. Right, we want that that rush to feel like there's some sort of hope or positivity. So people then impulse buy. Let's face it, we're human. So we we impulse buy. We sort of think, Oh, this will make me feel better when I just could get that or I could just have that. These material things are a huge distraction to us if we're going to be super frank about it. There are huge distraction and the reality for us is they will 100% give you an instant buzz. You will open that package, you will be amazingly excited and then it will pass. Absolutely. And it does pass. So so we've probably got to call that out in the first instant. So we absolutely understand we're all human beings. We are seeking some sort of instant gratification in some instances, but also in others. When we're feeling that huge overload, it's a burden and we want some sort of, Oh, I just want something to be happy about. So we buy something. Yes. Or we do something that costs us money because we think that's the only way that we're going to get that buzz. So I think that's super important too, is we've got to tap into how we create the buzz. That doesn't mean that we've got to outlay a whole heap of money to get it. So. So there's a few things that are wrapped in here. And the other thing I noticed in what you were talking about to Sandy is giving yourself permission to ask for help. Yes, absolutely. And a lot of people aren't aware of just how much help there is out there. So that's another thing we want to make you aware of is that there's a lot of free financial counseling out there. And by going along and seeing a financial counselor, not only can they help you negotiate debt repayments, but they have some funding available that they can help people with some food vouchers, perhaps pay off some electricity bills and some other items. And there's different products out there like the No interest loan scheme, which is available for people to buy. white goods, help pay their registration and they can pay that off and there's no interest charges ever. So there are many, many products available and I will leave some fliers and you can put those up on it where people can reach out for help. And it's extremely difficult for people to be vulnerable and ask for assistance. But just taking that one step and when they realise the assistance that is available, it is such a load off and you know, it's getting one of those monkeys off your back and releasing some of the burden. And that is the same with having those difficult conversations with whether it be your partner or your family about the financial situation you find yourself in. Because once you admit it and open up and start talking about it, that also helps solutions start to flow. And other people might have suggestions that can assist you as well. So I think in my experience, I've definitely found that the times it's hardest to ask for help is when you need it the most. Yes. And it's okay to accept that help, even if it isn't an easy thing to do. I think a lot of people, again, have been raised in in that mindset where you don't ask for help, but if you don't ask, you're not going to get it. That isn't going to magically appear and the services are there. So we need to have the confidence to reach out. I think also we do a lot of comparison to others. You know, we see how our friends live and they might be going on holiday or having a big home or got a new car and really coming to peace with how you want to live your life. And that's something we start with in our financial fitness workshop is we're not comparing ourselves, anyone else. We're looking at what we want out of our life and our financial future, and we're just planning for that because your idea of a holiday might be a cruise, but my idea might be camping out at Bucca, so it's putting in place your goals and what you want to achieve for you and your family and how you're going to reach the lifestyle that you want. It's not about what your neighbours are doing. Sandy I love that you've brought up around comparison and, and how I guess it can it can just strip all of the energy out of you when you're spending your time comparing yourself with other people. And I have this beautiful friend, Dr. Rene Jones. I hope you're listening. She shared a couple of quotes around comparison to me that she applies in her own life and shares with others and they are comparison is the thief of joy. And the other one find the inspiration, not the comparison. So for me, these are very much reminding us that we are part we are creating our own path. It is not about following what other people are doing. It is about us finding our own path, which is exactly what you were talking about before. It is not about comparing ourselves with the people next door, or the best friends about what they've got and what they can afford. However, how can they afford it? It's interesting, Kate, isn't it? It really is. And in our last episode we talked about social media and the impact that has on mental wellbeing. And I think this feeds really nicely into the conversation that we're having now, because a lot of people forget social media is a highlights reel you post on there, what you want people to see, you post the new house, the new car, but you're not seeing whatever else is going on in the background. It's a highly curated feed of the best moments of your life. I've been working in community now for about 30 years and when I was growing up I was raised by a single mum and I had four brothers and I knew as a child that money was tight, but I felt like I had such a rich childhood because my mum used to do such fun things. I remember one night we made homemade potato chips and that was all we were having for dinner. But she made us line up like we were going to a fish and chip shop and she wrapped up each individual, serve a newspaper. And then we took it outside and we ate it as a picnic. And that was just such a wonderful memory for me and many of my Christmases. Christmas Day. We didn't do the traditional hot dinners, our Christmas Day used to be at the beach every day, like for the whole day. So we'd pack a picnic lunch and we'd go down to the beach and we'd swim all day. Well, do you know what I thought? I had the best Christmas ever. And it was really cost effective because we had our picnic. But the time spent and the memories that we made were just fantastic. And I follow that through now with my I do with my children, but also with my grandchildren. And we often will take a picnic lunch and it could be a vegemite sandwich and a juice. But if you go on a picnic, you've gone on an adventure. And I don't remember that we only had Vegemite sandwiches, they remember the adventure that we went on. So part of my financial fitness workshops is also about looking at the predicament that you're in, looking at it in a positive light and making it an adventure and using some unique and fun ways to try and make it more bearable. Because if I have to say, I've got to stick to a strict budget for the next five years to pay down my debt, it's not looking so great. But if you're looking at new ways to live on a budget but do it creatively and make it an adventure, not only does it drive you to come up with new ideas, but it makes it less cumbersome and you can actually have some fun around it. Now, Sandy, you and I had a really good conversation around this a couple of days ago, and we were looking at other ways that you can inject a little bit of adventure into your family life without breaking the budget. So what other sorts of things can people do? I know we were talking about going on a little bit, a bit of an adventure to buy our fruit and veggies. Well, Bundaberg's known as the fruit bowl here, you know, we grow a lot of fruit and vegetables locally, so we could use that as a family outing and take the family out on a Saturday morning and say, let's go and get our fruit and vegetables for the week and it might be you go out to Moorpark and have a look at the streetside stalls and see what you can pick up, you know, very inexpensively. Rather than paying the supermarket prices. Having those conversations with the people that you are close to, whether it be family or friends, putting it out on the table and what strategies they use. And maybe you could do some bartering, like if I give you eggs, you can give me some of the vegetables that you've grown. And then also looking at meal planning. And I like to do a weekly meal plan where I look at what events I've got on and planning my meals around it on a Sunday. And then I only shop for what I need because it's nice going out and buying a $7 four kilo bag of potatoes if that week I only need half a dozen potatoes, I can spend $2 on the potatoes and put that $5 towards bread or milk or even some petrol. So it's about, yeah, really planning ahead and thinking of fun and smart ways to make you don't let go a bit further so that planning ahead. It's interesting that you talk about planning. We did a column yesterday for Stronger Together. We write a column in the local newspaper as well. And when we were writing that, we were thinking about, you know, this this level of overwhelm and and having to plan meals is an extra thing, you know, that you've got to try and think about you're putting energy into. And what we talked about is, well, let's just have that same meal plan. If you're feeling like there's a lot on your plate, set your meal plan, do the work in relation to working out what your grocery list is and where you've got to go to be able to get those items, put it on repeat. We don't have to have something different every day of every week if we're trying to sort of make our life a little bit simpler. Sometimes we just put stuff on repeat. So we think of a meal plan, just put it on repeat for a few weeks. It's okay. The kids will be okay. My family's always been, you know, okay with with the repeat meal plan. You know, we know on certain nights of the week we have the same stuff because it is simpler. We know the ingredients, we know they’re fresh in season and you just then change it up when people get a little bit tired with it. But that's another strategy, too. I love the meal planning. I think that is so important. Now we have some resources, as Sandy mentioned, and one of those is a meal plan. So we will make sure that that is available. You can find everything that we talk about today on our website under the Stronger Together tab. So Lee-Anne Baker is a local lady preschool teacher here in Bundaberg and she has started her own organization business. And she taught me that full meal planning we've got 31 days in the month, so if you sit down and just write out 31, go to meals and it's not actually that hard to come up with 31 different meals and then you've got a whole month's worth of dinners where you never have to eat the same meal twice in a month. But using that list of 31 meals, you can just when you go to do your meal plan, choose a meal off there and you're ready to go. So you're not having to come up and recreate the wheel every month. You just use. You go to list. The other thing that I like to do is cook once and eat three times. So on a Sunday night I might cook spaghetti bolognaise for dinner. And then using the leftover spaghetti bolognese means on Monday night I'll throw a couple of baked potatoes in my slow cooker before I go to work. When I come home, I've got already cooked slow cooked potatoes. I add the bolognaise mince and chop it with a grated cheese and some sour cream. And I've got, you know, the second night, on the third night I use the rest of my spaghetti bolognaise mince and I might nachos and my kitchens clean five minute meals and very economical to cook. So it's about yeah, thinking ahead, planning ahead and don't be a slave to your kitchen. Make it fun and come up with creative things. Now it's great that we're coming up with these strategies, but at the end of the day, we need to know where our money is going, what we're using it for. So I would like to have a chat about budgeting, if that's okay. And I personally, I found that I need to live very intentionally with my money. Every dollar has to have a purpose. It has to go somewhere, whether that's into a savings account or whether that's on paying off my electricity bill. But that's really one of the big keys to making your money. Do what you need it to do, isn't it? It is. And it's one thing that everybody seems to avoid is actually sitting down and tackling that financial plan, looking at where your money is going, and then coming up with a strategy on how to pay that down. When you're on a limited income, which some people are on $250 a week, by the time they pay their rent, their utilities and their food, there's very little left. And that's the question I get asked very often is I don't have anything to spare. So how do I do this? One tip that I say is pay yourself first. And by that I mean it could be as little as $5 a fortnight. When I was a single mum, I started with $5 a fortnight and I put it off into a separate account and that was money for me. And by that I mean once I'd saved a few fortnight's pay, I could afford to get a haircut or something that I needed for myself without feeling guilty that I was taking money away from my kids. The second thing I started was$5 a fortnight for my children, and that went into a separate account and it gathered over the years and that was money that I used on school expenses. So when a school excursion came around or they needed new school shoes, I had that money set aside and I could buy that item guilt free because I knew that it wasn't coming out of all the bills. And it's surprising. Some people might say, well, $5, that's not a lot. But like I said, small increments, mental steps. It builds over time, it gains momentum and it gives you a heap of satisfaction. Just seeing that account build over time. But when you don't have money to spare, it might have to start at $5. The other tip I use is I get a coke bottle, a 600 milk bottle, and every time I get a $2 coin, I put it in that coke bottle. When that coke bottle full, you've got $880. So imagine if you did that all throughout the year. And come the start of the year when the kids are going back to school, suddenly you've got $880 to put towards school uniforms or books and it just takes such a burden off. So it's about creating habits over time that lead to bigger rewards with paying in it, paying down your debt. And that's often the thing that people have the most trouble with. We've heard of these buy now pay later schemes. And unfortunately, when people are seeking that instant gratification that you talked about, people fall into that trap of getting these buy, buy now, pay later. And I've experienced with the clients I've worked with over the years, that's the number one issue that I have often. And people have two, three, four or five of these schemes going and then they really struggle to pay them down. So that's when I talk about debt snowballing and how snowballing works. If you haven't heard of it, if you pick one. So I normally choose the smallest debt, but some people say, well, I'd choose the biggest one on the one with the highest interest rate. It really is an individual choice. But I always start with the smallest one because it's the one that you can pay off the quickest. So if we pay the minimum payment on all the other debts that we have, and then we just try and find ten or $20 a fortnight to pay off that small debt that you've chosen to get rid of, keep going over time. And when it's eventually gone, you're paying the minimum payment, which let's say is $20 plus the extra $20 you found off that debt. So then you get the whole $40 and you pay all of the next it. You don't then say, well, I have to say 40 bucks, so I'm going to go and spend it. And look, you might do it one week, spend that $40 treat yourself. But next week you need to get back on that bandwagon and you need to pay that money off your next debt and keep going until it's all paid for. So what you're doing is you're taking the minimum payment on the next one. You're adding that $40 on top of it. So that's going to be paid off quicker. It will be paid off quicker, yes. But that's how you finally achieve paying off all your debt. Of course, before we get to that step, it's great that you've acknowledged your debt. It's great that you've made a budget plan. But I still recommend before you do any of that, you go and see the free financial counselor who may be able to get some of your debt reduced or waived because that's what their job is. They're very good at it. They are nonjudgmental and they're free. And why wouldn't you tap into a free service if they can just reduce some of your debt before you start? Then you've got a foot in the door already and it reduces the time that you've got to stick to that strict budget. I was just thinking as you were talking Sandy to around as people, we get derailed, we do get distracted. We have the best of intentions going into something, you know, and it'll it'll will build a little bit of a habit for a few weeks and then we go, Oh, hang on, I've got something coming up and I'd like to do that or I'd like to do that. We we go to chip in to that money that we've been so diligent with saving or putting away or paying down the debt. So it kind of feels like we need to have that emergency plan, you know, pull up, pull the hatch or pull the cord when those moments come up. Because the other thing we know is those moments in time that they tend to pass. You know, we know that it comes up. We have this feeling that we want to we've got to get that or we want to do that right now. We want to take that money out. We're sick of doing this as a potential emergency plan. I think everyone needs to have one. Do you have any ideas around, you know, some things that people have put in place that might be going for a walk, go for a walk outside, just get away from the on the online shopping screen, get away from that computer, go for a walk, sleep on it, You know, have you got any strategies around that? Because we've all been there. We have the best of intentions. We get a little bit of rhythm going and then something happens in our day and we go stuff this look, I'll pick it up again tomorrow and we just undo all of that beautiful work that that has been started. So a couple of things I like to talk bad in these workshops is finding something that brings you joy. So it might be coming up with new ideas on how this weekend I'm going to make a fun weekend for the kids so you can actually spend some time during your week planning some picnics or some outings. It might be finding a hobby that when you start to worry and get stressed, you can go and do your hobby for a couple of hours and just take your focus off what you were thinking about. But look, I think at the end of the day we all slip up from time to time. And I think the main thing is if you do slip up, don't beat yourself up over it. Just acknowledge that you're human and we're not infallible. And just say to yourself, okay, I'm a little bit disappointed, but I'm going to start fresh again tomorrow and get back on that track and go again. What I like to do is I actually log on to my bank accounts and have a look how much I've saved. And that's an incentive for me because just knowing that I've got, you know, $50 in there and I can go and buy something for myself or get a haircut and not feel guilty about it, that's that's great incentive for me or or stress, you know, adding to that additional stress of where where can I where can I find the money to be able to do that. Sandy, just on the back of something you said then around I can start fresh tomorrow. I think the other thing is sometimes I'll go, oh, I'll start that again on Monday. I'll start that again tomorrow. Oh look, I've already blown it today. You know, I'll, I'll give it another go, you know at the start of next week. I think the thing to remember is that throughout a day we have 24 hours. You can expect that you're going to be derailed or have a slip every now and then within those 24 hours, you can absolutely give yourself permission to reset the next hour, the next half an hour on the hour, whatever that looks like for you. I think that's a habit we're getting to that we think we've got to wait for a new day to dawn and everything's going to going to magically change so our resets can happen during the day as well. Just let that pass. Talk to someone, use your emergency plan, whatever that looks like. And Sandy's had some great strategies there. But remember, you can reset at any time during the day. You don't have to wait for a new day or a new week to be able to reset. Think of think of New Year's resolutions, Right. People get to like March and they go, oh, b...... it I've moved on. All right. I'm starting next year. So I think there's some you know, there's some really good strategies in there. Sandy, thank you. There's a word that keeps coming up for me in this whole conversation, and that's guilt. And I think that there is a lot of guilt attached to money, whether you have it, whether you don't have it. And I think that that's something that nobody talks about. But we should. The truth will set you free, is what they say. And we know that a lot of conflict in our relationships is caused by our financial situation. So if you can get brave enough to actually start having these honest conversations with your partner and your family, it will relieve some of that guilt and some of that burden. And it might be very tough at first, you know, because there could be shock around how much debt you're in and people might not know about hidden debt, but getting it out on the table, you know, you can then start to have some really proactive conversations around how to manage that and tackle it. And a problem she shared is a problem halved. So just having some support networks around you to help you through it, I think is a really big step. Now, you mentioned homelessness is something that you're seeing an increase in as well. And it's not just in Bundaberg that homelessness is on the rise, it's everywhere it is and there are a lot of people and a lot of different people that are homeless for very different reasons. So I guess my take on homelessness, because I do see it quite often, is looking at ways to improve your situation. You know, we can't avoid the fact that some people are homeless and that at this point in time their situation may not be able to change. For quite some time. So I like to look at strategies on how we can make that a more positive experience for the person and simple things that they can put in place to try and make the experience more, well, more pleasant and more able to be tolerated for any length of time. So if we look at our lifestyle in Australia, lots of people pay a lot of money to go camping. Let's face it, I know staff that I work with, they can't wait till the next camping holiday. So if we look at some strategies on setting yourself up, if you are homeless, things like trying to get a really good quality tent. So there's some service organizations around that might have funding that might be able to assist you with obtaining a tent. So reach out to some of these community organizations, find out who has the funding for these, and start yourself off on the right foot by getting somewhere safe, dry and warm to sleep. There are other strategies. My son actually mentioned it because I'm looking at retiring someday soon and he actually said, Mom, you know that if you join a national gym, one that's all across Australia with their franchises for $50 a month, if you are camping or caravanning, you could access that gym and have hot showers. You can go in and charge your phone, I mean, if you needed to while you're having your shower, you could wash your clothes and then just take them back to your campsite and hang them out. But also in summertime, you know, when it's ridiculously hot, you can get some respite by going into the gym for a couple of hours, putting your phone on charge, and it might just be another investment that might be worth looking at if you are homeless and helping you to stay clean and showered every day. And look, there's lots of tips that you could use. So again, I'm just encouraging people to try and think proactively about switching thought process and looking at ways to improve their situation. Yeah, it's a it's a really hard one, Sandy, isn't it? You know, when we're talking about homelessness, I have never found myself in a situation where I've been homeless. So I'm not walking in the shoes of other people who have been. And I, I get a sense, too, that potentially for people listening, they're going, you know, I can't control this. And we absolutely understand it's out of people's control what is happening in the current environment. And no one has a real solution, a real plan that we're seeing that's unfolding that is not going to take, you know, years in the making for it to actually come to fruition. So I guess what I just wanted to say, I think Sandy's highlighted some some really good things in relation to how we're looking at it from our own lens, from our own frame of mind when we find ourselves in this situation. But we also completely understand that these situations are in your control. However, you do have the control in how you then respond. What you do next. So this is really just about providing those some practical strategies around potentially what you could do next. We get that it's hard that we understand, you know, in the work that we're doing with our clients that this is absolutely out of their control. But but what are some practical strategies that you can actually just lean back in to that control and and do something for you and your family that maybe, yeah, it might be just a little bit more positive. And I think by looking at some of these strategies, it also helps you improve your own mental health because instead of falling into depression, maybe some of these approaches may give you a happier mindset as well. So I think that's really important because looking after your own health and wellbeing is absolutely first priority, but also by talking about it and reaching out, you're getting some support to help you along your journey as well. And you never know who's got the next best idea that might be able to help you. Absolutely, and that's what we're here for. You know, we're here to provide the support, provide the help when people are needing it. And it really is about people stepping into that space and actually owning it and going, I need some help. Who can I speak to about this? That's it. The help is here, but you are the one that is responsible for stepping up and asking for it. That's the hard bit. And it's going to take time. You know, anyone that's got any level of debt and limited income, it is going to take a long time to pay down that debt. And when you're juggling the cost of living and everything, as we are at present, you know, there's people that are going without medications and they have to choose who's going to see the doctor this week because we can't afford to go. You know, there there's some really tough decisions to be made out there. And when you're trying to look after the health and wellbeing of your family, they've really tough choices. But we need to look at who can help along the way and what are the strategies you can put in place to try and make it bearable. Yeah, so it is about choices now, and the choice here that we're offering is that, you know, you can you can reach out. We've got some amazing tools that we will make available on our website that captures a lot of the stuff that we've talked about that we hope will be very useful for people. So we've talked about an awful lot today, haven't we? There has been so much we've talked. I'm still stuck on the on the picnics, you know, with the fish and chips wrapping our fish and chips. That is such a cool and novel idea. There's so many different amazing ideas. And I love the menu planning, you know, the idea of having those thirty meals available to you that you can just tap in. And again, people have just got that resource available. You're not having to continually feel the burden of having that extra thing to think about in putting out nutritional meals for for yourself and for your family. So it is all about what are the hacks that we can tap into. And a lot of that, when you think about it today, has come from just a conversation. Again, those two ladies at the coffee shop sitting down and doing that spitballing, That's what we've done essentially today as well is sharing ideas. That's when the real super cool stuff happens. Yeah, that's right. And we will make all of those resources available on our website. So we have menu planning. We have to do lists, we've got a budget planner, we've got information on financial counseling, there's lots of other things there. So if you would like to access these resources, go to www.impact.org.au/podcast and you will be able to find everything that we are going to share from today's episode on that website. Now, I just wanted to say thank you, Sandy, for coming in and having a chat with us. I think that you've shared some really good tips and knowledge. Hopefully we can help a lot of people. Oh, absolutely. Sandy. There's such a wealth of experience there and what I love about it most of all is it's tried, it's tested. You've you've you've shared your own, you know, vulnerability and your experience around this is what it was like for me. I've tried this stuff and I know that it works. It does work. You've just got to keep at it. And the other thing that I say to people is if you do take advantage and go and see a financial counselor, remember that they're there to help you. So if they come up with a budget that's absolutely wild and crazy that, you know, you're not going to be able to sit, don't leave the office. You need to just say to them, Hey, let's be real, this is a little bit tight and I'm never going to stick to this and ask them to change it. So once you've admitted your vulnerability and that you're in trouble, don't walk away with a service that's not going to meet your needs. You know, they are paid to assist you. So call them out and say, Hey, yeah, this is not going to work for me. So be brave and yeah, go and see your financial counselor and get some help. I think that's probably our top tip for today is be brave. Absolutely. And that small changes create big change. So keep at it. Love it. Thank you so much, Sandy. Well, that's everything for today. Thank you, Tanya. Thank you, Sandy. And we hope that you'll join us again next time. Don't forget to have a look at our website for the resources and for where you can get help. And until next time, don't forget, we're stronger together. Happy Financial fitness. Thank you for listening to this episode of Stronger Together. Sometimes the issues we discuss and stronger together may be triggering for some people. If you've been affected by the topics we have discussed today, please reach out for help. You can call Lifeline. 24 hours a day on 13 1114. Or you can use the chat option on their website. If you live in the Wide Bay BURNETT region. You can also reach out to us at Impact Community Services. Go to Impact.org.au and click on the make a referral button at the top if you wish to self-refer. We hope you've enjoyed today's episode and if so, please remember to hit the subscribe button. Until next time, remember, we're stronger together.