Brighter minds and enhancing mental well-being in the classroom

Join us on this episode of "Stronger Together" as we delve into the critical issue of mental health in schools with our special guest, Vicki Ross, a guidance officer who's making significant strides in supporting our young people in Bundaberg. 

Discover the complexities of mental health challenges our students face, from ADHD and anxiety to the impacts of bullying, and learn about the innovative, collaborative efforts being made to provide a nurturing environment for their growth and wellbeing. 

With a focus on early intervention, community collaboration, and individualised support, this conversation sheds light on the essential work being done to ensure our future generations thrive. Don't miss out on these insightful perspectives and strategies that are paving the way for positive change in our educational system. 

#ImpactCommunityServices #Bundaberg #MentalHealthAwareness #StrongerTogether #YouthWellbeing #EducationSupport 

Thank you for listening to this episode of "Stronger Together" We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained valuable insights.

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Transcript

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Welcome to Stronger Together, a powerful podcast series hosted by Impact Community Services. I'm Tanner O'Shea, managing director of Impact, and I have the pleasure of Frontlining this little passion project about. In the podcast, we dig into some of the many social problems that people are facing within our communities. And we chat with guests willing to tackle the hard conversations. We want you to be kept informed and updated on the latest information. Yeah, they're also aware that some of the topics address sensitive issues that could be triggering or distressing for some listeners. If you find any of the content challenging, we encourage you to pause the episode and seek immediate support. Information on where to seek help will be provided at the end of each episode and also on Impact's website. impact.org.au. Please prioritise your well-being while listening. Before we begin, we would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we live, work and meet. We pay our respects to the elders, past, present and future that they hold the memories, traditions, the culture, hopes and values not only of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, but of all Australians. Now let's delve into the important conversations awaiting us in today's episode. Hello. Welcome to episode nine of Stronger Together. My name's Tanya O'Shea, and this week we're going to be talking all about young people. Young people are our future. And certainly here at Impact, we recognise the importance of the work that we do with our younger generations since they're coming through and we're paving the way, I guess, with some of the strategies that we're putting into place as a as a service provider in our local community. So we're looking for different interventions, preventative models, different ideas, I guess that can really start to break these generations of welfare dependance, some of the behaviors that we see in our communities. And it's about coming up with different ideas and ways that we can start to break some of the cycles, break some of the patterns that requires creativity. It crea it requires innovation and it requires collaboration. It requires a whole of community approach in how we're actually working together to tackle some of these problems. And we are fortunate to have Vicki Ross with us today. Vicki is one of those community collaborators who is passionate about working with young people and certainly starting to create change within our community in some of the opportunities that are provided to our young people. Vicki is a guidance officer here in Bundaberg and she works across both primary and high school, which is incredible. It must be quite a challenge at times to remember where you're at. Vicki Because I know you wear lots of different hats across these schools, even though it's the guidance officer role. I'm sure there's different roles and responsibilities that you have in all of those, all of those functions. So welcome. Vicki Thanks for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me today. I really appreciate being invited and I'm looking forward to having talk about such an important issue. That way affects us as a community, but as us as a school as well with all our young people. So working in the local community, working across a range of schools. Vicki When you think very broadly about some of the things that you're seeing within our young people, tell us a little bit about what you're noticing. So in our area in guidance, we are looking really at a whole school small group and then that sort of top of the Tier 5% of kids that require intensive support with regards to mental health, it can affect the whole spectrum. So some kids might be experiencing just some social, some issues that they might have making friends. General parts of the community and others might have more specific mental health illnesses. So with young children, 75% of children, the mental health illness start to rear the head before the age of 25. So really what we are looking at is those early signs and trying to pick those early signs and trying to connect children and their families with those supports that they might need to help make a difference in their life long journey. So what we see in schools in terms of mental health, the top of the tier and we're looking at probably about 8% of kids might be ADHD, which can actually come co-morbid or actually be a pre indicator for anxiety or depression, depending on how they go with that one. Anxiety can be what we might notice next. I think it's around 6% of kids might be experiencing symptoms of anxiety. And again, this is what's reported. It might not be a true indicator, it might be a lot greater number. And these statistics have come from 2015 prior to COVID. So it might be different numbers. Now that we're looking at then we are looking at significant depression that might be impacting kids wanting to come to school. It might be impacting kids with wanting to live, it might be impacting kids in wanting to function in society so that can have a significant impact on them. On top of that, we can have incidents of children that are going through post-traumatic stress disorder with issues that happened in the home, financial disparity in the House, particularly with the cost of living these days, it's impacting them and then a wide variety of issues that can be related from things that happen in the home but also at school. So we also see a high amount of kids that are impacted by bullying and that is something that goes on and it's something that is insidious and it's something that's hurtful for the kids as well. So, wow, that is a lot for young people to deal with, isn't it? And you mentioned co-morbid. So when we're talking about co-morbidity, what are we referencing? So we're talking about when things symptoms go hand in hand with harm with each other. So a child that might be experiencing ADHD and have the symptoms of ADHD, they might also have anxiety as well that comes with it quite often. There is a wide amount of kids that experience depression and they have anxiety that goes hand in hand with it. And so they might be diagnosed with anxiety, but they might also be diagnosed with depression. So both symptoms they're experiencing at the same time. And what we know and you mentioned that is if we're not intervening early, these young people are taking it through into their adult lives. So they're taking these symptoms and which are manifesting into behaviors and actions through into their adult life. And that's where we're sort of starting to see a whole other, you know, a whole other range of behaviors that start to break out of that as well. So so when we think about intervention, when we think about prevention, what are some of the things that you are seeing actively happening within our community to respond to some of the symptoms, some of the behaviors that we're seeing within our young people? Yes. So it really is case by case. So everybody has a different journey that they go through. So it is looking at what are the barriers that are impacting the child and their family and then looking at what are the how is the child presenting and what can we do to work with that one, for example. So we might have a child that parent has contacted school and said they're refusing to come to school. At the moment they have experiencing some symptoms and sorry. So our first discussion with them is have they seen a GP yet? Because it's important to unpack whether this is medical or whether it is something that's environmental, that's going on. Is the stress at home, is the stress at school, which it could be either or both. So we unpack that with the family hand-in-hand in the journey. Once we look at medical, they go to the GP, have a blood test, they might have a urine test rule out if there's anything that's going on with their bodies hormonally that might be impacting it. If that's not, then we then have a look at, well, what are our barriers that we're looking at? So sometimes there might be some issues that are going on in the home that are significant, such as domestic violence. So they might be refusing to to to come to school because they're worried about what might happen at home. Sometimes there's financial burden on the family and the child can see that this is impacting their family and they want to be there to to help out with siblings. They might want to be there to help out with mum. They might want to be there to help out with dad. So they wanting to be around the house more, but that sometimes they might have an overuse of gaming and that can lead to low self-esteem. When we look at gaming, they are on the consoles and they're getting that heated over mean when they're playing the game and that just can't compete with with life they're not getting that same heated over mean when they're out in the in the in the world and functioning there and that actually impacts them not wanting to leave the house and it's kind of a downward spiral it's quite a terrible terrible thing when kids are using the devices. Sometimes it might be that there's PTSD and there's an incident that could have even happened at school. Like I mentioned before, bullying happens. If there's an incident that's happened to the child at school, school could be the stressor. So what can we do to help work through that stressor? And it's a difficult space, but it is about that communication with the family and communication with the student to work out what is it that's going on, what can we do to help? There is so much as your unpacking that for it to be individualised when when we start right back when you were talking about the stats high number of young people. Okay. Fitting within the categories that you talked about and then it is it and it has to be absolutely an individualised pathway that we're taking for some young people. They have got that family unit that they can wrap around, and that is absolutely essential for other young people. They don't always have that support. Is family unit, so they don't always get what they need, what they need directly from the family. So then there's got to be other interventions, I guess, that are considered for that young person. How do we resource this? Like when we think about the number of cases that you're that you're talking about and it has to be individualised? We can't just get a group of people together and go, right, You're all the young people who have been diagnosed with ADHD. This is what we're going to do with you. That's not how this works. So how do we resource it? How do we get the young people what they need when they need it? That's such an important point. It is not a one size fits all model and it's not a checklist that we take off and go. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. This is what we need to do to help you. How we resource it, really needs to be fluid and it needs to be about what do you need and where do we need to go. So in terms of resourcing, I guess where we start is how many are we looking at for each area of support in the current times, whether that's interviewing kids or finding out who needs what and then working on those pathways from there? You'd be surprised with high school kids how good they are and even primary school kids of talking about what they barriers are. Well, that's insightful, isn't it, to be able to talk directly to that. So yeah. Wow. Okay. So they can name it. So if you if you ask them to talk through what's actually what might be getting in their way from attending school and participating in school, you can have you feel like you can have an open conversation with them about that. Absolutely. And look, sometimes I know teenagers and sometimes they can be a bit aloof, but a lot of the times you can get down there. And what is it that that's preventing you from coming to school or what is it that's preventing you from being successful for school? Because sometimes these kids, their attendance is there, but they might not be in class, they might be truant and whacking or they might be in class, but refusing to do the work or they might be in class and worried about getting the questions wrong or the thing that they can't do as well as what they can do. And so they don't attempt the work at all. So it's about talking with them and working out what is it that's impacting you and there are trends and then there are incidents that are unique. And I guess when we're looking at what kids need and what are the biggest sort of barriers for them, we can label a few, but that doesn't mean that that is going to be what's impacting Little Johnny or Little Sally. What do the kids call you at school? The student They call me Mrs. Ross. Mrs. Ross Yes. So what I am guessing is that Mrs. Ross has built a really good rapport with these young people, that you've built a really trusted relationship. And if we're sort of flipping it so the young people are willing to come in and tell you and share because they trust you and they and they know, you know, that you're there to support them and help them. Parents, other people within the community who can who can see some of these behaviors within our young people. We can get frustrated sometimes, Right? We see it, We hear it. We think, man, come on, let's just do the work. You know, you've got to go to school. What advice would you have for parents? Because we know, you know, majority of parents are coming from a place of love. They want the best for their young person, but their kids aren't always willing to share. And that comes from it might be, you know, judgment or, you know, they just don't feel like mum and dad can hear, you know, they're just not willing to hear or they're not listening. Yes. To to what those real problems are. So what advice would you have for young people coming from Mrs. Ross's experience? Yes. So coming from my experience with parents, if you're having trouble with your child opening up about what's going on, reach out because we can work together with you. And sometimes it does take having that extra person in the room just to start that conversation with them, particularly when you're reaching out with people that might be able to even list said these are things that impact other kids because sometimes the child might not want to open up because they don't want to. Have you feel disappointed in them or they don't want to have you worry about them. They might not want you to feel sad or angry with them. So it's not necessarily a negative thing that they don't want to talk to you about it. It might be shame, it might be, I'm fine and just don't worry about me sort of attitude that teenagers can have sometimes. So if you are stuck, reach out and you can reach out to school, you can reach out to GP. Beautiful. And and some of that I guess for some kids because you talked a bit about cost of living stress, you talked about domestic violence at homes, in homes, some of those other situations that are happening within homes that perhaps the young person just doesn't want to give mum and dad more, to have to worry about that, to know that they're feeling under the pump, that they're actually not coping. So it might be coming from that place too. What what are some of the triggers or the stresses that you are seeing potentially within that school environment? So you talked about bullying earlier. So we've talked about some of those external stresses. Are there are there any other triggers or stressors that you're seeing within the school environment that might have a part to play in it? Almost certainly like when we think about bullying, we automatically think, it's just that bully that's in the playground that says or mean things or puts their hands on other people. But it's more than that. It can be social isolation from their peers. So particularly with girls you do see they they have their flavor of the month with their friendships sometimes I'm I'm not saying all girls do that, but it's quite common. And then that one girl that gets left out from the rest of the group or is a bit ostracised from the rest of the group, it can be a very significant impact on how she's going. Sometimes kids have trouble finding that adult at high schools that they can reach out to. They feel a little bit lost. They've come from primary school. Some of our primary schools in town, a teeny tiny. And then you think about the big high schools that we've got in town. So it's quite overwhelming for them to be the big fish in that very, very little ball and come to school. And there there are very, very little fish in a very, very big bowl. So it's quite an overwhelming sort of thing for them. And I look around and who's my advocate, who's my person? I had my classroom teacher, my principal that I knew so well in primary when I come to high school, who is that person? And I looked to find. So if you are noticing that with your child, then that might be a conversation to have with the school. Like who is a support person or who is a person that my child can come to? Most of the time in the high school you would be looking at the level co-ordinator is the first point of call. But it's always, always okay to come and ask. And what is some of that advice that you give to the students that you know who you know are experiencing some of those stresses or triggers? So we take the parent out of the equation for a moment, just just those conversations that you're having with them. What is some of the advice that you give to them? And I know it's highly individual guys, but what are the more common things that you talk about? So it is highly individualised. But a lot of the things that we talk about is at school. What is it that is causing you the stress? So stress might be related to a point in time thing that's happened with another peer. So then we look at is that something that we need to do, actions regarding mediation? Is that something that we need to do? Actions regarding sort of building up the fears or bullies sort of ability to identify what they can do to change the situation? Is it something that we do where we connect the child with someone else? Sometimes we have children that come from primary school, come from out of town. They have no friends. They might identify, Hey, I don't have any friends. That's the problem. So that's something that we look at. Well, what groups do we have going at lunchtime? Have a chat to some of the teachers. Do you know of any other kids that are now struggling to make friends, providing them those opportunities to get to know each other, providing them opportunities to say, come to Breakfast Club. This lots of lovely people that come in there in the morning. We've got a lovely chappy at all the schools that I work at, so they might be doing some friendship groups. Come along, join, come and meet some people. So it's about sort of the advice that I give is tailored, but there is always a plan. I if that doesn't work, A, plan B, c, D, E, f, g. So we always try different things depending on the person. Yeah, it really it gives me hope. Yeah. In the system, it gives me hope for our young people. And I guess it just is really demonstrating that there are lots of different options that that teachers and guidance officers explore with our young people. And sometimes we've just got to ask for help, whether that's the student, whether that's mum and dad, whether that's the caregiver, just making sure they connecting with the school, reaching out and actually asking to run through some of those options. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And something that we often tell the teachers, it's about noticing. And I would give the same advice to parents. It's about noticing. If you're noticing that a child in your class or if you're noticing your child is more withdrawn than usual or isn't socially outgoing as usual, quieter, It's just something's not quite right. It's about the inquiring opening up that discussion with them. If you're not getting too far with them, then reaching out to school, seeing if we've heard or seen anything of what we can do to help you. I'm going to say this with a little bit of a precursor to say this is not about judging, but parents are busy, aren't they? And and that is such an important point around noticing and taking the moment to pause and try and interrupt that busyness at times, because it can turn into a bit of a Groundhog Day. I can remember when my kids were at school. As a parent, you just tried to keep turning up not just for the child, but then there's work and then there's other commitments, and then the kids have got stuff that happens outside of school. It's a lot for parents. That noticing, though, that is so it sounds easy, but it's just fundamentally it's important and we have to take that on notice, don't we? That noticing is super important and pausing to then have a discussion about it is equally as important making that time. Yeah, absolutely. And sometimes it takes a while to notice because teenagers are aloof sometimes, and so it's hard to know whether that's regular teenage behavior or if that's something different for for my child. So it is it is a really difficult space. You're absolutely right. And it is about noticing that sometimes it is hard to notice as well. And that's totally okay. There's there's no judgment with that. Absolutely. If you do notice, then opening up that discussion and it's never too late. So please don't ever think that, you know, they've actually been like this for months and I've been like, I can't reach out now because like, people are going to judge me because it's taken so long. Now, Most most you find most people at schools have had kids themselves and work with kids. And we understand. Absolutely. We do. We get it. We get it. And we're all very supportive. You know, we absolutely understand. You mentioned ADHD before, and this is a topic that's fairly close to my heart. So neurodiversity, let's talk about that because that adds another level of challenge for young people is what I know about ADHD, is that a lot of the time it is diagnosed in boys more so than girls. And when people think about ADHD, they think of the young kid, you know, acting out in class, you know, running into walls or, you know, throwing stuff around, behaving, talking over the, you know, top of other people because they just can't hang on to what it is that they've got to say. Tell us about your experience with neurodiversity within schools and how we do welcome and appreciate that, because in my experience, you know, females aren't diagnosed until they move out of that structured family environment and they leave home. Then things aren't quite ticking around. You know, the way that they did when they were at home and they haven't got those same routines and patterns. And it can be harder for girls when they're not diagnosed early and they've got to deal with that then in in adulthood and then start to recognise that neurodiversity is a gift, even though it's a challenge, it's quite a gift because they see things that neurotypicals don't actually notice. So tell us how we embrace that. And we we include our neurodivergent within our schools. Absolutely. And look, I really want to strongly urge people to not think that ADHD has got anything to do with parenting. That's a terrible, terrible misunderstanding. ADHD is something that is very, very prevalent in young children and in adolescent and through adulthood. So it is something that when we think ADHD, we think, bouncing off the walls, like you said, that that's not necessarily the case either. There's actually two types of ADHD, and we've got ADHD, which is the hyperactive, but we've also got the inattentive ADHD used to be called ADHD, but now we know it is ADHD as well. And a lot of the time it is just that difficulty concentrating some people that we know, some people are more hands on, we know some people are more active than other people and that's totally okay. We are all different sometimes with ADHD, if it's being missed, which is something that just happens sometimes, you know, it could impact the child's grades, it could impact their behavior because they feel like they're not getting it. It can actually lead to them feeling anxious or depressed because they think I'm dumb, I can't do it. And actually it has nothing to do with their cognition. They're just having problems with their working memory and having trouble retaining the information because they're having trouble concentrating. And that's totally okay. And that's something that we can work with in schools, and that's something that we can work in at home and it's something we can work in in life. Just because someone has ADHD does not mean that they will not be successful. There are plenty of people that have very, very high ranking, high qualifications that have ADHD. You hear a lot of stories about people that went through their adolescence thinking, I'm not as capable as the other kids. I can't concentrate. My grades are terrible. I must not be very, very, very smart at all. When they reach adulthood, they start learning more about ADHD. And I realise that was the barrier. It was my ability to concentrate and focus, my ability to organise myself. That was the barrier. It had nothing to do with how smart I am and I am smart. So when we think about co mobility, we think about if a child goes through their life with ADHD and they're not feeling successful, it could lead to things like depression and anxiety because it impacts their mental health and their wellbeing because they feel like they're not as capable as others. And I love that you're talking about mental wellbeing and we've referenced it a lot through our chat today. One of the things that we are doing through a peak organisation that we're a member of the Queensland Alliance for Mental Health is a project around wellbeing First and that Wellbeing First project is about organisations like Impact developing something grassroots, I guess that is how we put the mental wellbeing of our communities at the forefront, how we shift that medicalised model of servicing mental wellbeing or providing services for mental wellbeing and how we shift it back I guess to more of a more of a wellbeing focus and how we’re tackling that as a community, We know that it's tough times at the moment. We know that we've got lots of families struggling. We know that we've got a cost of living that is just unbelievable. We know that with housing we have many, many parents that are on waiting lists that are just ridiculous. And we've got many families that are displaced at the moment. We've got families that are living within households that aren't their own household because otherwise they don't have a roof on their head. So when we think about wellbeing, when we think about self-care, it's so important that we look at it as a whole community or whole school proactive measure. So within schools, like I said before, I work in primary and high school. So in primary we do lots of things around wellbeing that a whole school. So we might do things like Smiling Mind and can I just say that's something that I personally do as well at home. So love that chair, right? So, you know, it doesn't have to be just because for children it can be for adults as well. And it's a free app. So that's about mindfulness. We might do things like how school in the high school, we do whole school mental Health Week activities, we do random acts of kindness. We have sausage sizzles. That is for no particular reason. Just, you know, a nice thing for everyone to enjoy is as an end of the term sort of celebration. So I think it's really important that we work together to do nice things as a community for each other, but just to be community, to have that sense of and side by side doing nice things. And the idea is to look at our self-care, look at within ourselves and have fun. I love that play. Have fun. We lose that as is. Adults don't say yes a lot. We can learn from our kids. That's exactly right. We can learn from our kids. And when we think about busy families and the stress that we have as well, if your cup is empty, then how are you meant to to share with you with your kids? So as a parent, I really recommend that it's important to take care of your self-care as well. It's okay to have that time where you're going to watch that movie that you want to watch or go for a walk or spend some time with you, with your friend on the phone. It's okay to sit down and just breathe, have that cup of tea and take time for yourself. And I think that's something that our kids need as well. So quite often with anything that's going on with them, I always ask them about what is something you can do for self-care, What's something you can do to care for yourself? Beautiful. I love that. So important and it is very similar to that. I'm putting own oxygen mask on first, right? As one of my beautiful kids once described it to me as some jetpack and how am I meant to take off? And my jetpacks empty. that's so insightful. It's beautiful that. Yeah, absolutely like that. Excellent. So here at Impact, we have been doing a little bit of research in the community I mentioned earlier. We are always looking for creative ways to solve problems. And one of the things we have been looking at is the creation of an independent school. It may not happen, but really we're in that sort of problem solving, looking at potential solutions, and an independent school might be one of those. It is all about how we're improving the mental health and wellbeing of our young people. It's about looking at alternative options to mainstream school particularly. And what we're hearing, particularly around what is termed as school refusers. Some people may have seen there was an episode on 60 Minutes, I think last year, if you read the paper regularly, you'll see a bit, particularly The Courier Mail. They talk a fair bit about school refusal, school attendance, changes in school attendance, home schooling, decisions to homeschool children. So there's a little bit being talked about in papers. I guess the evidence though, for us, and it's all in the numbers and the stats, but also about having those conversations with schools, with parents, with young people. And we've been doing that. And we and the data is it's been backed up. You know, the stories are being backed up by data. So what people are telling us is that we have got an increasing percentage of school refusers. These these young people, young people with incredible potential that they might be doing really well at school. They're just refusing to go to school. And that could be for a number of reasons. So what we're being told is it can be related to anxiety, exactly what you were talking about before, anxiety. There's suicide ideation or safety concerns around the young person. It could be because of some of those internal factors that are happening at school that we talked about around stresses and triggers that might then result in them making the decision, I don't want to go to school anymore. And for some families, I guess they remain steadfast and go, You are going to school because the concern is as soon as we interrupt that pattern of going to school, we break that. Then it'll get less and less. But for some families, it's really hard to get that kid in the bus, on the bus, in the car, however they need to get them to school and they go, I can't do that today. I just can't have that argument again today. I'll let it go today. And then it's the next day. And before we know it, it's quite an extended absence that's that's occurring. So again, without judgment, let's have a conversation around what you're saying around school refusal here in the local community. There's certainly an increase in school refusal post COVID. And I think a lot of the time it's very, very emotional and difficult space for families. It's a difficult space for schools and the child as well, but particularly with parents and carers when they come in and approach our school about it. I really, really have gotten to that point where I don't know what to do. I don't know how to help them, and the child will often get into a situation where it's been so long since they've come to school that in their mind it's just that that space, that that bridge too far that they just can't cross anymore because it's gotten to that point. So what we can do about that is a really difficult question because it isn't a one size fits all. And I to be honest, I'm not always successful. We're not always successful in getting the kids back to school that are doing the school refusal. Sometimes what the need is, is something that we can't match. And sometimes what the need is, is something that can be matched with home schooling or distance education. My only concern sometimes with that is with social and just making sure that they're having that time where they can do social things. So and I know that that's a really difficult space for families because if they're school refusing quite often they refusing to do sports or and I think the library has really wonderful activities going on in many of the afternoons. The Youth 360 program is a really wonderful one through the YMCA. So there are lots of community things that they can do, but it's a really difficult space. So I think going down that area needs to be something that isn't just a journey with families and schools. It does need to be a journey with external services as well. So whether it be impact with having that advocate that can work with them across the home and school sitting, whether it can be the GP because it might be something medical that is going on there that they need additional support with or a referral on to a external psychologist or counselor to try and unpack some of those significant issues that are creating a barrier for them to engage in learning. It is just such a big issue and I can't even imagine for those parents what must be going through their minds and and the options. And they must feel like they are absolute, utterly out of options. In some in some circumstances, there is just nothing more that I can do here. And I guess social media and I think about social media and I know it's the bane of many families existence, but what we know about social media is we sometimes think that's the way that our young people are, that from a socialisation perspective, they're keeping in connection with people. But again, what the data is telling us is that social media is actually creating more loneliness and isolation within our young people. So when you talked about that connection, that's social connection, okay? We're not getting them to school, okay? We're just going to park that one for a minute and we'll look at other options. Social media, though, is not the option when it comes to socialisation. So perhaps, you know, refocusing and pivoting a little bit for the family and how can I keep my young person connected socially in some way? So you talked about the library there might be volunteering opportunities if they're not into sport, other cultural activities. So it's really starting to understand what other interests young people might have just to keep them socialised and connected to the community in some way. Absolutely. Let you think about where our confidence comes and a lot of the time we draw our confidence from other people and we extend we draw it externally. So what happens with social media is it doesn't have when you read something, it doesn't have tone. And sometimes when you read something, it might not be you might not comprehend it the same way the person has written it. I do remember a couple of years ago we had a group of girls not getting along and it all came down to the original text message or Snapchat or whatever it was. Message said, Hey, you are. And we unpacked that. What would be wrong with with saying, Hey, that's how we speak to people. I can tell that she's angry with me. How can you tell that from that? Well, it needs to have five exclamation marks. Otherwise, she's angry at me and as well. What if I said hey to you in an email? no, that's okay. You're old, so that's not how you speak. So there's a sort of another language that's within it. And, you know, talking with the girls, Well, what if I yelled hey at you? Because that would have five exclamation marks or for hey, that could have five exclamation marks. So when they're looking at social media, it doesn't have tone. And sometimes it can be misconstrued like the comments that are written on there. Sometimes the comments are not nice comments as well, and sometimes there's people that they're socialising with. And this is a whole different area really getting into it. But sometimes they're not even the same age and it's a person that's not a good person that they're talking to online. So really, when we think about social media, it can be social, but it can also be something that has a detrimental effect on their wellbeing. Absolutely. It comes with lots of unwritten ground rules, just like you talked about with the exclamation marks. I thought, hey, know what, we can read into it. And even as adults, there's lessons in that for us. Yes, yes. That's how I write. Something might not be that might be considered rude with someone, someone else reading it that it wasn't intended as rude. But if I said it, it seemed it's it's perfectly acceptable and kind. Yes. And I think what are some long term strategies are interventions that can help students perhaps overcome that school avoidance. So is there anything that you have seen has worked really well? Yes. So what works really well is a soft launch entry. So looking at taking small steps, what is your goal this week? Who are your champion people? So a lot of the time we might need to introduce the child to a case manager so that can be their champion at school. Sometimes it's me that's the champion at school, sometimes it's the youth level coordinator, sometimes it's chappie. So they need to have that champion person that check and connect with them. That regular check and connect. Hey, how you going today? Thumbs up, thumbs down. So tell me about it. That opportunity to connect with someone this week. Our goal might be to come to two periods for one day, week and then next week, two days at two periods, and then working our way forward through that way. What are our goals? Sometimes it might be that I really like cooking and I will just start by going cooking and I'll ease myself into it. That's okay. We might give them an opportunity, have a time out space when things are overwhelming for them, and that gives them an additional opportunity to have a check and connect with somebody up and up in school away from their classroom. So I think it's really important to to address the needs. But in terms of what is something that is consistently a good strategy, it is that wraparound soft launch entry, slowly getting into it, slowly take removing any of the stress. So if it looks like the stresses might be related to assessment or academic things, is there something that we can do about it? It's a little bit more difficult when we sort of get into the all these year ten, 11 and 12. But certainly with those younger years primary going into high school, we can look at removing some of those assessments just for that interim while they're getting that wraparound support externally and through school. Well, it is great to hear that there are options that are being explored so openly. And again, it is very tailored to every individual child. It's so beautiful to hear that it's not a one size fits all. It's very much around the individual and what's going to work best them. Yes. And sometimes with high school and primary school, because 100% of kids access high school or primary school, whether it's private or state, everyone accesses it, but everyone has different needs. So it is a one size fits all with how it's made. But when children need individual support, then that's when we look at tailoring it. And sometimes high school and primary school can be a difficult space and sometimes not everyone is successful just going side by side with their peers. They need that little extra sort of leg up, that extra wraparound support to be successful. Great. It's like you were meant to be a guidance officer. Like, seriously, is this something you always aspired to do? Because you just it sounds like this role was made for you. thank you. Well, actually, I started off as an early childhood teacher, and then I have a habit of saying yes to everything. And so I ended up in I have a primary in grade five one year. And I just remember there was a few kids that were going through a few things at the time. And so they'd come and see me at lunchtime and I just it was really hard for me hearing their stories. And then after lunch I get your book out and they'd look at me and like, You know, what's going on? And so that was sort of that, that sort of time where I go, Am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing in this world? And so that kind of led me down that path towards becoming a guidance officer, because I do I love people, I love being around people, I love hearing people's stories. Like I said, I'm not always successful of finding out the answer and the way forward, but I try and I think it's really, really amazing space to work side by side with families and kids to to a joint goal. Well, it's evident that you are absolutely passionate about what you do and so invested in and committed in young people. It's just amazing. Well, thank you. No, it's very, very cool. Vicki, thank you so much for joining us. We really do appreciate your time. Is there anything else, any final words of advice that you have for our listeners today? It's the only thing I can think of is just the value of talking and spending time with each other. I know a lot of the time kids really do enjoy spending time with their champion adults, and even if it's having dinner together or watching a TV show together, just spending that time, you don't have to dig into what's affecting you or what's sad or happy in your life. Just that time and side by side and talking. It's so important for both you and your child to have that time together. So thank you, Vicki. What an absolute pleasure it has been to talk to you today. I cannot believe a certificate if you've done this before, said, no, I love it. I hope I get it right. It's like, my goodness, It's been an amazing conversation you omit to speak in front of a microphone. So thank you for your time. You have got so much work that you are doing within the community and we really appreciate you taking some time out of that. Really important work to spend it with us and and share some of the experience and the insights that you're saying within our schools here in our region. Thank you very much for having me. And you're most welcome. Thank you. It's been an amazing conversation. There are some resources you will find them at the end of this episode. So there will be a number of resources made available that if you would like to find out more information about anything that we've talked about today, please go and have a look at those. Thank you again for joining us and I look forward to talking to you in our next episode. Sometimes the issues we discuss in this podcast series may be triggering for some people. If you've been affected by the topics we have talked about today, please reach out to someone for help. Alternatively, you can call Lifeline 24 hours a day on 13 1114, or you can use the chat option on their work site. If you live in the Wide Bay BURNETT region, you can also reach out to us at Impact Community Services. Go to impact.org.au and click on the make a referral button at the top of the page if you wish to self-refer. We hope you've enjoyed today's episode and if so, please remember to hit the subscribe button. Until next time, remember, we're stronger together.