Money Matters: Women's Road to Financial Independence since the 50's

 Discover how gender roles and financial strategies intersect in the latest episode of the "Stronger Together" podcast, hosted by Tanya O'Shea from IMPACT Community Services, featuring expert financial advisor Ben Neilson. This episode, explores the dynamic shifts in financial planning and gender roles through insightful discussions and practical advice. 

In this enlightening episode, Ben shares his expert insights on navigating financial planning within the context of evolving gender roles. Listeners will delve into the crucial aspects of financial independence, understanding the significant impact that equitable financial planning can have on relationships and societal structures. The conversation highlights the importance of involving both partners in financial decisions, dismantling traditional gender roles, and adopting inclusive strategies that empower individuals regardless of gender.

Explore a variety of topics including how to foster financial cooperation in relationships, the role of financial education in achieving gender parity, and practical tips for managing finances in a way that supports equality and mutual respect. This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in integrating principles of equality into their financial practices, making informed decisions that benefit all parties, and contributing to broader societal progress.

Tune into "Stronger Together" for a comprehensive guide on using financial tools to create a more equitable and supportive environment for all. Discover how changing your financial habits can lead to greater personal and communal prosperity.

For more information, supportive resources, or to listen to other episodes, visit our website at impact.org.au.

Keywords: Financial Independence, Gender Equality, Financial Planning, Personal Finance, Social Change, Gender Roles, Financial Advice, Community Services, Equality. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of "Stronger Together" We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained valuable insights.

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Transcript

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Welcome to Stronger Together, a powerful podcast series hosted by Impact Community Services. I'm Tanya O'Shea, managing director of IMPACT, and I have the pleasure of frontlining this little passion project of ours In the podcast, we dig into some of the meaty social problems that people are facing within our communities. And we chat with guests willing to tackle the hard conversations. We want you to be kept informed and updated on the latest information. Yeah, they're also aware that some of the topics address sensitive issues that could be triggering or distressing for some listeners. If you find any of the content challenging, we encourage you to pause the episode and seek immediate support. Information on where to seek help will be provided at the end of each episode and also on IMPACT's website. impact.org.au Please prioritise your well-being while listening. Before we begin, we would like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which we live, work and meet. We pay our respects to the elders, past, present and future for they hold the memories, traditions, the culture, hopes and values not only of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, but of all Australians. Now let's delve into the important conversations awaiting us in today's episode. Hi, my name is Tanya O'Shea and welcome to episode ten of IMPACT's Stronger Together podcast. Now, as you know, each time we do these recordings or these podcasts, we like to dig into another topic, and sometimes they're a little bit more controversial than others. But what we do try to do is really push people's thinking, I guess, into exploring what it's what else might be possible. And I like to think of it as, you know, if you had that magic wand, what would you like to see change if you could make that happen with that magic wand? So today we're going to be exploring a little bit of that. But before we do, I would like to introduce you to today's guest, Ben Nielsen, who is a local financial advisor here in Bundaberg. Welcome Ben Thank you. Fabulous to be here. Thank you. Thanks for making the time. Now, the first thing we would like to do today is to just cast our minds back about how many years, Ben, do you reckon? I was thinking in the 1950s originally, but what do you think? Cast our minds back? Roughly, if we can. Roughly 100 years. So in order to contextualise that, one of the easiest ways to do is introduce a metric. And so for the purpose of this podcast, I want to use your mum's mum to come back to the early 1900s. my mum's mum back to the early 1900s, I think. I can imagine that. And I'm starting to imagine some my mum's mum I can remember WOW, my mum's mum. I can remember her. So they had a farm, they had a property but they were such hard workers and I can remember her work when I think about the work that she did. It was a lot of housework and I can remember the washing. The clothes was in a, an old, like a little old bath tub, but it had this ringer that used to. So it was all very manual. So it wasn't just housework, but it was all very manual hard and everything used to take a very long time. But, but during that time, you know, for women, a lot of it was was housework. That was their that was their work and it was unpaid. So it was just an expectation that that was her role. The man would go out and he would work. So for my grandfather, he worked on the farm and they had cows. And so he'd he did that and he would come home and would expect for his dinner to be on the table ready for him when he got home. That's what I can remember was quite interesting that you touch on that and I'll get there in a second. Yeah. In particular, some got sick of those roles. So there was a young solicitor by the name of Charles Ray, who was one of the first Negroes admitted to the Supreme Court in 1911 that Charles took on rather unwinnable case where he defended a rape accuser and got the victim also got the accused off. Now, when you mention the last 20 seconds of Ray, most people think that he's a male, actually. Charlotte Plot twist. And she did that because every time she found herself in a courtroom, that wouldn't let her in. So she went under the proviso of Charles, this particular case, she was demanded by court rolling to get a local council, male, white, who was going to represent her? And she was requested to be silent for the whole hearing. 1911, 1911, 1911. And she was required. So you said requested. I'm thinking she was probably told that she had to really remain quiet for the whole hearing, for the whole eight days. And every day she broke that rule. Wow. And if we skipped courage isnt it and if we skip forward to the next generation, the fifties, we see the introduction of Ginsburg. Ruth. So Ruth was one of nine females that was admitted to Harvard to study law. And on her first day, the dean said to her, What gives you the right to study law, taking a position that could have been filled by a man. And her response would be written in history. The rest of ever was that she wanted to study law so that she could support her husband, who was a lawyer, to be a better wife. now, for those of you that are familiar with her, that's an absolute understatement. Now, a couple of years into her universities, her husband, Marty, got diagnosed with testicular cancer. And as if she didn't have enough on her plate already, she was studying law with two small children. So she decided to attend Marty's classes and take notes so that he didn't fall behind. Well, it's quite incredible, isn't it? What an amazing woman. And she was a trailblazer all the way through for women, not just following that law pathway, but for women in general. You know, she really turned people's thinking around, didn't she? And she, you know, just I think of the suffragettes. You know, but I but I also think of these amazing women like Ruth Ginsburg, who demanded change. And without them, we would be so much further behind them what we were today. It's funny you mention that people think that Ginsburg was pro female. So she wasn't pro female. She was equal opportunity. She was anti discriminatory. So in 1958, she took on a case on behalf of a male who was denied a carer's allowance because in that time it was unfathomable that a male could be a caregiver. So this bloke could never married, couldn't work full time because he had to look after his ill mother and he requested a tax consideration so that he didn't have to pay full income tax when he was caregiving. And the court denied it. And Ginsburg took it to the 10th Circuit Court, which is about as high as it goes and got it overturned. And then for the rest of her career, she won 34 landmark cases and had 161 of the 178 discriminatory laws overturned. Wow. It blows my mind because you think, you know, back when she was coming through, when she applied for that place, you know, and was told, how could you possibly take this place away from a man? That persistence, the determination, the dedication in a society that demanded that the same way of thinking, you know, we all get caught in that stream sometimes, right, where you sort of like you get pulled into the vault vortex of we all think that that societal expectation and to to try and knock that wall down or to break the glass ceiling or whatever analogy you want to put on it. But that's hard. You know, that's really hard. And and for me, I start to wonder, where did that thinking start to emerge from? Where did she start to think that she could actually start to rattle the cage a bit and create something different in how to look? What's your support mentally? Absolutely. It's talking about these ideas. And faced with the say of you're wrong and that doesn't work, and sit down, little girl kind of concept. So she was literally told, Where do you find the resilience and how. Yeah. And today we've got so many different mechanisms to be able to garner support, to be able to encourage different ways of thinking, to share our views. You know, if we think through social media, it's just it feels like we can reach whatever audience we want to now. And back in those days, we couldn't. And now there's heaps of opportunity for us to shape thinking, to change thinking. But we still have such a long way to go. Only so. So thank you to those champions, those amazing women who have started to pave the way for change. What are we seeing now? So when we think about, you know, going back 100 years, we think about where we're at today, 2024 and know is today 46% of women, so almost 50% of the Labor force is women. Yeah, it feels like we've made a little bit of a pathway there. What we also know is some of those stereotype people roles that were traditionally held by men, women are starting to step into those roles. So as they're coming through school, girls, women, they're encouraged to start creating pathways that were traditionally just associated with men. So that's exciting. So it's kind of like, yeah, that's that's awesome as well. One of the other things we're going to talk about today, though, is around that earning potential of women. So when we think back to the 1950s, women were only earning around 75% of what men were earning at that point in time. What we know today is that, you know, that is increased. So women are probably $0.88 in the dollar when we compare men versus, you know, what women are earning is sort of we've closed that gap and there's still a fair way that we want to go there. But what we also know when it comes to the earning potential of women is there's other factors that we still haven't addressed. So usually not always now, but usually it's the the mum has the role of if they have a child, mum will stay at home. Excitingly, though, we're seeing more and more of the husbands or the fathers going, Hey, I want to take on that role. So. So we'll talk a little bit more about that. But what we know is around some of those caretaking duties and caretaking responsibilities, even with aging parents, women will go into those caring roles as well. So things like superannuation are affecting earnings potential. So let's talk a little bit about that, Ben, and what you're seeing in some of the women that you're working with. It's not unique to say somebody's coming in with a significantly higher superannuation balance. So we talk about analyse, you know, what have you done without seeing us? And it would almost be the roles. And I suppose with our influence, we're changing that and we're also changing the barriers and the stigma around who has to do what. So I've just put some stats for you. In 91 instances over the last three years, our office has recommended that the male stays home, not the female. Wow. And we talk about utter sacrifice. So me and my wife do it as well. Just because she has the biological capabilities to have a baby doesn't mean that she should financially sacrifice while she's there, too. So the second she goes on maternity leave, I'll stop paying a super. Why? Because she has to sacrifice everything. It's not really fair that she's broke. So we're talking about the difference of roles. So for the 81 that we've recommended already. Usually the males have some sort of blue collar work, and usually they start early. So we look at the financial implications of, say, leaving at 5 a.m. and finishing at 230 or 33 whatever, and not being able to raise the child trade, the child take the child to school, whatever it might be. And then what's the impact of that do you take a 100 grand home, do you take to 200 grand home, do you take 50? grand home, What what what is it? And then what's the cost of childcare sort of put to kids? And I don't know the local school before. What's it physically cost and what's the sacrifice there? Is it worth husband kind of work leaving in the morning and taking 50 or 60? grand home Versus the 25 of the 35,000 that it might cost for that care. And then we're having really open discussions around I think you should not do that. I think you should present in the morning. And sometimes we've had pushback on about 28 instances. The guy has said absolutely not. And then so we go on to sort of a no question scenario where we say, if you're going to do that, you have to forfeit the morning and you absolutely have to pick up the afternoon. So 230 comes around, you tell your boss you gone, you take those kids up, you get them absolutely ready, you do nothing. So when your lovely wife comes home, how's this for a role reversal? She doesn't do anything. Wow. She sits she enjoys. She's a dishes. It's all done. You are the hypothetical female in the 1950s instance for that. And that's the only way that this works. You have to sacrifice just as much as she does. Wow. And why not, right? Absolutely. Why not? So. So being able to have those conversations and you called it, you said it's a really open conversation. People, both parties, all parties need to come with a really open mind about what is possible without putting barriers or boundaries or expectations around things just to. Is that how it works? You basically open and just put it all out on the table about this is what's possible and this is what is best in your situation . Here’s an idea is the math The statistics to support it is what we expect and this is a family unit is what's going to set you up. It's what kind of you know, or whatnot. And most times the female admittedly with these cases is all for it, right? Why would you not be? And selfishly, being that I am male, we often don't know. So spending time at home with children is a real wake up call to just how much we usually put on our partners plate so how else will be know. And also then you can begin to appreciate everything around you just as much. We all know we all have friends around us and you have one stupidly high performing female with a couple of small kids and you look and go, how does she do it all? And you look at him and go, What do you do? And we're kind of challenging that stereotype now, safely. Yeah. and that idea of here's an option. We use that with our teams here, you know, instead of saying, well, this is this is done and set in stone. Okay, great. Thank you. That's one option. So really what you're giving people is options. At the end of the day, it's up to the family to decide what's the best for them. But it is about making the time, creating that space, and then providing options. And for them to almost design the family environment and the lifestyle that they would like to create for themselves that doesn't disadvantage the partner. So when you set up that, it seems quite innovation based driven, but it's not just something to the considerations out of it. So there's an office and there's a room in the office where there's bowls and games and stuff and what the kids in there because we need them quiet. We need to focus. Yeah. And if you do that, you actually take stress off them as well. So how else are you expected to mitigate to small children running around the office? While mum's supposed to pay attention and dads getting frustrated. We need them in that environment. And then once you do that, we just simply say, here's a couple of options like you say, and each have ramifications. So you could do to this. You retire at 45, you don't do this, you retire at 70. So your choice and that way they can actually have some ownership to it. We chose this sort of supportingly speaking. It brings the couples together. If we have joint financial goals, then they have another thing to hand out another notch in the belt. We're doing this together. We're back to being a family unit, otherwise one goes one way and the other goes the other way and we see the inevitable, which is really unfortunate. Absolutely. And money, I guess, in society, money is almost like the secret in many relationships. It's the thing that's not openly talked about. So when you when you say, you almost make it sound innovative, I'm calling it out that it is innovative. This concept that people and families get together, they create time, they create space, they put energy in to being open and transparent and talking about money really openly without secrecy, but looking at how it can benefit both People don't create time for that. They're so caught in the whirlwind of and the grind some time of life that this is a real opportunity. I would call it a real opportunity that if people want to create the pathway rather than get just caught up and go, now I'm 70. Where did all that time go and why am I still working? It's a way to disrupt the pattern, isn't it? And why not? Like, not that I'm taking a shot on anyone, but who wants to do the same job for 50 years? That was the last generation, and they don't enjoy it. So why should we in life? It's for living. And if we have the conditions and the ability to do it, why not? Absolutely. Absolutely. Completely agree. So let's let's talk a little bit about this thing called money. Just generally, why is money such a taboo topic with people in your experience? What's with that? Why the secrecy? It seems to be a lot of work. And so we're very, very lucky that Brené Brown exists, but there's a lot of shame affiliated with money and a lot of there's a lot of social stature to. So if I in 40 grand and you in 60 or 70, statistically I'm less valuable than you are. And we see it often, whereas this generation seems to figure out exactly what they need to survive and do that and focus. So I teach up here CQ and we are seeing students do exactly what they needed to because they've got an absolute scope on that trajectory. We might have a whole course of 12 units for example, and they'll cherry pick four and then they'll go to another course and I'll cherry pick three because I know exactly where they're going. And so the norms of, shall we say, important and society is decreasing and we're seeing more people talk and talk and talk and then there seems to be more associations with kind of off the cuff financial advice, too. So if you've ever gone to a restaurant with your mate 2 seconds into it, you're talking about the house that you're going to buy or the super balance that you're going to do, or you know, salary sacrifice. I've never been exposed to it in the last ten years of practice as I have post-COVID. So we're saying people go, I don't like where I am and I don't know how to get there. And you're my mate. So you tell me how you got a step ahead. And then when I figure it out, I'll tell you how I got a step ahead. It's actually quite beautiful. I've often found myself at restaurants and stuff thinking my job's gone well. And also, why do I need it? Why am I charging for it if they can find it? Yeah, find it. Because if you went and we both went. So there seems to be a heightened importance or a heightened association with importance around financial. I think what people psychologically have done is figured out that if they have more resources, they don't have to do that, that the amount of time in the job that they don't like and that makes them happier. And I think that's what we're trying to get Nice. So you touched on comparison, you know, and this person earns more. This person has that car, how come I haven't got that car? So that jealousy, that comparison, social media does a bit of that as well, you know is where are there on holidays there. Why how can I get to be on holidays there? That looks amazing. You know. Do you see much of people falling into that comparison trap still today, particularly, you know, with social media being so alive and well and people sharing all of their beautiful, happy stories and memories on on social media, we don't see some of the gritty, ugly stuff that sits behind you. Go that pretty quick. Yeah, definitely. You know, so you see a thing you see in New Caravan and you see whatever. And then I often think, what was the circumstances like when they got the like, Did they just accept a bucket in the bucket load of debt or how did they, you know, but yeah, you're seeing it all the time. I, I'm not quite sure which generation I am, but I think we're the last of the generation that cares. If you look at the Gen Y they are unbehoove into any thing in anyone, they're very crystal clear, And they will do the bare minimum just to get what they need. So I think we're the last generation that kind of matters in terms of, you know, your accolades and my association regarding your accolades. I think the next generation don't care as much with respect to the next generation of people who are working really hard. So, you know, one of my values was always work hard, remain humble, be kind to people. You know, that's what I tried to turn up and do every day. And Angela Mollard, one of the writers in the Courier Mail, sort of went, you know, I've been working hard, you know, as a journalist for the last 30 years, some more. And now it's more around, I want to have the lifestyle and I'm not willing to work as hard. But yeah, there was just this real starting to notice and see you know, there's more and more young people going, I don't need I don't need a house, you know, I'll just rent. And if I can't rent, then I'll go into a share house. If I can't rent by myself and more of an acceptance that, you know, I'm going to live my best life and I'm not going to be tied to anyone or anything around, you know that working hard, earning a wage every week, which, you know, my generation, so generation Gen-Xers, that's what it was all about. You know, we all had the job and you got the job and you worked for someone and you kept turning up for work and you get caught in that groundhog. And again, next thing is 70 and you're retiring. And now we’re seeing kids on tick tock saying, Hey, look, I managed to get this bread from whatever at $3 cheaper then and then we're seeing an absolute flurry of the same thing. So, look, smart, cost effective budgeting is now cool. Yeah. As it should be. And vintage shopping, you know, so it's no longer, you know, going to the second hand shop. It's the vintage shopping, you know and I think some of that, too, has got to do with, you know, the environment and recycling and the practices and fast fashion, which I am 100% in on. Absolutely agree. But there's still this bit in me that I I'm that I'm the worker bee you know I want to i1i like working if as long as I'm enjoying it you know I'm happy to have a purpose get up in the morning, get going and go off and try and do some good in the community. That's what fires me up every day. What would what would the conditions be with that has to change for you. So if it wasn't something that you had to do and it was had slowed, how long do you think you would do it before you started looking the things so the next generation are doing? Yeah. So I lasted ten years in a job doing the hard slog. Ben Ben's looking at me and I'm just speechless. God, are you for real? And for me in that at that time it was like I had dropped out of uni. You know, some people have heard me talk about this. I dropped out of uni at that point for me, university out of school. You go to university or you get a job. I was doing both pretty much. And then I thought, I'm having too good a time. I'm going to drop that university thing and just stay in a job that I hate, but I'll have a good time earning money while I'm going. And then I put up with that for ten years and then thought, I'm having a child. I might just have to have 13 children just to stay on maternity leave for the rest of my life so that I don't have to work. So I had that really old traditional, you know, the stay at home mom and didn't have these beautiful conversations that you're having with families around. Actually, there's another way that you can do this. If you love going to work, you can do that. And if you want, if your husband wants to stay at home, he could stay at home and look after the child and here’s the way that you can both have you know what you want out of that. I love my kids. If they're listening to this, i want to be super clear that I love my children, love my children, but I also like coming to work. And I think there's this this thing that people call around mother's guilt, you know? And I just think we've got to stop using that sort of language. It's unfair. It's unacceptable. I don't I don't think that is fair. It doesn't mean that we love our kids anymore when we want to have purpose in our life that's outside of our children. And it's real! We've recently we’re five months. When I say I mean Joe, not me, we’re five months pregnant after trying IVF for three years, and we've just started looking after other people's kids so I can get my head around it and mum guilts real. Like I've had random women come up to me at playgrounds and say, I'm not going to use that. I know that child and it's something and I'm like, Lady, I'm figuring this out as I go, right? So you site down, you tell me whatever, whereas I can see how that can be taken as confrontational. And it's, you know, it's the cars. It's the thing about kids that are cars and they've had stuff on their shirt and I don't care who is going to send them off like that. Yep, I'm sure there another way. And so how else are you going to how else are males especially how do they know what's expected if I've never done it before and it's almost like a freedom to because if you can take that weight off your partner, you want to contribute roo right? So you can do it financially by supporting it. And also you can do it emotionally by doing everything else that's conventionally her roll because blokes don't really understand this, but women feel stress too, and your lack of decision makes their need to make a decision much higher. So you can see why they have to adopt these roles and manage you as well, which is a situation which we all seem to find ourselves in, which just is completely unfair. So if we can take steps to mitigate that and create a family or an ecosystem where you don't have to put the other partner in that situation, eventually they're going to begrudge you. And why would they not? And it doesn't I'm not saying sell your leg. It's actually very easy to manage. You just take a couple of steaks over a couple of years. You're there. Yeah. Great conversation. Loving this. Let's talk more about about money, this scarcity and abundance that comes with money. Some of the language that people use. So when I'm talking about scarcity mindset with money, talking about don't have enough money is always like this weight that they're sort of constantly lifting around with them. There's not enough of it. They forego things because they're concerned. There's always worry attached to money. And and it's not just for people who actually don't have enough of it to do what they want to, but it's for people who have got lots of money in the bank and it's still a worry to them. And they always are talking about money from that from that scarcity mindset. So can we talk a little bit about this scarcity and abundance mindset when it comes to talking about money? We're saying it all the time. So we've got a saying on our website, this is a plug because it gets used anyway. We call it Connect. So it's basic literacy So you can book it,it's free half an hour So five years ago or maybe ten years ago, people used it to judge me and judge the business and decide if we're a good fit. You know, you get these head honchos couple local judges, all that sort of jazz And now I probably do ten or 15 a week. And it's just mothers trying to explain things to their children or couples trying to help with decisions. It's not beneficial to us. It's incredibly beneficial to them. And they just jump on and they'll say something like, he thinks we should do X, I want to do Y, What do you reckon? And I'm like, Well, is the tax, you know, conditions on H and here's the long term systemic benefits to both. And here's the thing, you've got to be considerate of to physical advice tell us. But if not his that and they go great thanks. So I had a mum now that I am glad Gladstone book and she had a five year four year old who was just about to have her first pay slip a little pocket change thing and she was saying, Can you explain to me the benefits of putting some of this money in the bank to my child? I was like, absolutely, you know, move the letter down so I could say that sort of thing. When we look at scarcity, most decisions that sort of around big financial purchases and the lack of preparation. So if you're earning so 50, 60, 80, whatever, and you want to buy an expensive things, say a car, for example, most people go, Can I afford it? And what implications does that have on my fortnightly pay a monthly, whatever it needs to be. And then that's where they stop. They go that car, it's going to cost me a thousand bucks a month. I can afford it. Green light, let's roll. Whereas we would say, okay, what's the loan term? Once the interest rate, what can you and I do together? How do we save ten grand so that those repayments come down? And do you need that now? Can we get another one from Brisbane, a melbourne office or whatever. And then what's all the choices around this And then does it doesn't have such an impact. So the best scenario might be a thousand bucks a month. The second scenario might be 500 bucks a month and it takes you a year and then in a year you wouldn't read about this. They often decide that they don't need a car, that that's expensive or they look at what, you know, like a savings account or a share account or whatever, and they go, that money that I sacrifice, actually, and a lot more than what that car has before it devalued and and thus on steps ahead and we sort of say well if you keep on that for three years or four years, then you can take a day off work. And they go, How does that work in the 30% or 20% or whatever, ten grand in five years of 100? And then that's your Friday, All of a sudden you change in the narrative. So it's no longer, as I'm basically saying, joy or preparing because I whatever, I can't tell you which admittedly I'm guilty of. And I feel very sorry for the people who work there, but how much I love click and collect. Yeah. You sit from the comforts in your office and you find all the stuff on special you buy buy buy buy. Some 12 year old with a belt wrapped around twice runs it out to your car and goes, Thanks dude, i go, I spent less time in there. I'm far more prepared. It was only it was a third of what I would have spent if I walked in there and all those preparations add up now. So I'm quite proud to say this. I did a lot of research and surveys for research and they pay me in gift vouchers. I feed my whole family with gift vouchers from research. Right. Wow. wow. And these are the sort of things that we can say. You know, we look at anybody's budget and we'll say, what's the biggest outgoings? Usually it's mortgage, car, mobile phone, and we've got solutions or we find solutions for all of those. And by reducing those outgoings, you'll actually find that you go from a scarcity to an abundance mindset, and then you grab that abundance kind of similar to Tony Robbins before you go to bed to rich and famous and you treat it like a tax. You say if you were spending $200 a week on that thing. How about we treat it like you still do and we buy yourself some assets or we buy yourself something or you salary sacrifice. So you do something to reduce the tax or increase your wealth or whatever it is that you need to do, you know, prepare for X or do whatever. And the more you do that, the more you elevate yourself. Four or five years. Most of these guys kind of forget when they get paid because of credit, several other aspects of income and all of a sudden they so much they come to it because they enjoy it. Money is great, but it changes that I have to. So I want to. And once you do that, you've got a dangerous level of freedom. It can actually work on being a better person as well. wow and which is directly linked to what we were talking about earlier with our young people wanting more freedom around the choices that they make. But having having that financial freedom isn't isn't about the amount of money you've got in the bank right? It's about what your individual goals are, what you're working towards. But what I also heard there, without you saying it, it's around consistency. It's a way around the way that we're showing up. It's the habits and the practices that we put in place and being consistency because they have this compounding effect. Okay. So can you talk a little bit more around that consistent practice? So we touched then on, you know, you might choose this, you might choose that it doesn't really matter what it is, but it's around being consistent. Once you choose what it is that you want to want to do, you've got to keep showing up to do it right. The easiest way I explain this, we've got an old federal judge and he's got a 10 million true story. Like you're not going to figure out how to use it. And he literally goes to the bank every couple of months and moves significant term deposit from bank to bank, and he'll get upset if you can't get 5%, you know, And he's like us and I have this rolling joke with him where he's going to pay tax forever because he's got such a wealth and he’s 80. So he had 60 odd years to accumulate. But if you look at 5% on five on 100 million, that's impressive. Right? But if you look at 5% on $1, nobody cares. And so what we try to do and let's just take super for example, if we just consistently put money into the environments where it will grow for you and then create some sort of ownership around it, this is yours. You watch it grow the second you hit 60, that's your freedom. And then we do a couple of those others. So we might do like an investment bond which comes out when your kid goes to university. So you have a tie and a psychological tie to that. So there's three or four throughout your life, and then you can see what freedom it affords you. But on sunset, it is again, it's compelling as the ninth wonder of the world, 10th wonder of the world. And once you put ownership to it, it's your goal. And that way you become behooved to yourself. If I don't do this, then if this and that misses out as me and then I don't get the thing that I said I wanted. So it's quite an interesting way to instill not that they don't have it, but values and to people because I want that thing and it's only a small sacrifice. I'm not saying put 100% of your salary in or you know, start working Saturdays and Sundays. I'm saying small, consistent contributions to whatever it is that you decide is important to you will eventuate the fact that that happens to you. So the decision is yours and most 94% of the people that we serve out over the last six years have done it. Wow, that's a high percentage of people. Right. And the other thing that I just heard then is it's not about how much money you have, even the smallest amount in continually putting that away. So if you're listening to this and you think, how could I possibly do that, I have got hardly anything left. Anything makes a difference, doesn't it? If you continue to keep that practice over the long term, you can. Good start to build on that. I give you one of the most bare bones example. If you can get 25 grand into super by the time you're 25 and then you put a meer 6000 a year into super for 40 years do you know what you retire on? 12 million, Oh, get out of town forty years, go figure Really? Yeah. So it's not I'm not saying that, you know, six grand isnt small amount, but $100 a week Roughly. Yes. 40 years roughly. You're going to retire. And a level of wealth that has never been seen before. Wow. That provides hope. It provides hope to people. You know that this is possible. 25 between 18 and 25, six or $7,000 a year to get yourself up there. That's your home free. Wow. Exciting. So one of the barriers we often find with people when they talk about putting new strategies in place or new opportunities in place, is time finding the time to do it? And I was reading on the paper, the Barefoot Investor was talking all about, you know, there's there's four times of the year that he checks his investment portfolio. And he said, it probably takes me less than 10 minutes. Or I go in and he goes, It's dividend time and jumps on. And is it because it's dividend time at the moment? So he's incredibly excited. And he said, I shouted out the other night I w as lying in bed the other night OH wifey it's dividend time. And she went you're crazy, go back to sleep basically. But, but one of the things I guess that really stood out in there is that he made a really clear point around he doesn't spend a lot of time in in once at once he puts the processes or the strategies in place. They pretty much look after themselves. So so if we if we're yelling out that we're time poor, we haven't possibly got the time to even think about this. Can you talk us through what's the reality? You know, how much time do people probably need to commit to setting themselves up for the future? And then how long does that take me sort of on an ongoing basis to keep moving forward the way that I want to, you know, this will shock you. So the initial might be 45 minutes to an hour. give or take. Okay. And usually we if we're not alone, there's a bunch of other officers in town that do it as well, usually we sort of let it where we make sure your kids are fine, you know, Officer always jazz And then we're talking. It wouldn't be in a quarter It wouldn't. It wouldn't be 10 minutes a week if that once you sort of we set up the app to make sure that you're emotionally tied. It's so little. Wow. So doable. So a lot of it is when you say app. So a lot of it is automated. So things are just happening in the background because I know if things are coming out of my pay automatically, I actually don't even miss them anymore. You know, once it's set up, it all just happens. They do their thing. Yeah. And I forget all about it. So and then I just live on the money that I've got left now that I'm choosing anyone in particular among all the local guides, their so good. So one of the biggest reservations that we've had, which is rather valid, is if I change my bank to get a better interest rate or a loan or whatever it is, I'll have to change on my direct debits. So four of the ones in town will literally copy your address and you may pay and all your accounts and all your direct debits and set it up in the new account where we're talking major banks, Right? So, you know, major bank. So they will just make that happen seamlessly. Everything that you've got or put into this new account for you. Wow. So you don't even have to, which is actually quite challenging because historically we used to change banks and then review what we needed as a direct debit. We can't do that anymore. But the technology is there to support the change and we're actually seeing more people want to make the change that's become further and further. too So when we first started years ago, it was just Bundaberg and now it's Chinchilla. We've got clients in Tully and Tansy. Like it's just further and further and further because people want to readdress these roles and they want to for a life that they actually enjoy. So what I'm hearing is banks are making it easier for us to do a deal. You know, that's better potentially than the one that we're on. So if you have any aversion to switching banks to get a better rate or whatever, that looks like, it's made easier for you. Very very doable So don't make that a barrier. Go in, have the conversation. Don't make that one of the barriers, the only barrier that we do have usually speaking for the males is that we will challenge the way that you think. And often they don't like that. Okay, which is fine. We're emotionally supportive, you know, So heavy has you felt of whatever needs to come back but shy of that use this very is just coming out 45 minutes or an hour so remind me again Ben initially probably only 45 minutes of my time, I then get emotionally tied to what it is that I've decided or connected to making sure that I'm very clear on what it is that I'd like to do moving forward. And then it's about adding it all up. We automate most things, so generally speaking, and again, we're not alone, but we would set up a bank account where you pay goes and then order automatically. So one might go in savings, one might buy two shares, one might get a certain one. We got to you specified joint, whatever. Nothing goes to you for spending very similar to the before and that's you. Well and then how long will it take me just to keep an eye on all of that. 15 minutes of that a week I want to set up like that for 15 minutes a quarter, you know, to get the synergies once it starts moving out. That's a wow. And so, hey, what's stopping us from doing this? Hey, what is stopping us? What is holding us back from just stopping us? So, yeah, like all the information is there, you've made several references to it already. We know that it exists. Sometimes we just struggle to find it, you know, with Google Scholar and what's going on with tech talk and stuff, you can just save things and have them. And we have a whole arsenal of literature as well. You know, for the nerds like me who want to write the scientific papers, we have that. If not, you've got direct links to money, Smart or whatever, and we'll say this is the statistical implications of you making this decision. Are you happy with it? And most times it's, yeah, yeah, go forward, young man. Diversification. When you were talking about we're setting up different accounts to different things. So all of those different buckets, I guess that you're setting up diversification is important, isn't it, that we haven't got all of our eggs in one basket? So to some people superannuation might be thing that they've got their eyes on and think I'm sorted, got my superannuation are maxing out on the amount, you know, that I can put into that every, every year and I've got that sorted. So I feel like I'm pretty set now. One of the statistics that I've heard Ben is that two thirds of women are now investing outside of their super, which excites me when we talk diversification when it comes to our finances, what are we talking about? So you've touched on shares, so that's one option. Superannuation is obviously another option. Talk us through, you know what what is not perfect, but what are some of the different models that people come up with when they're thinking diversification? We usually look to diversify income by recreating a salary. So we will aim to get some income from a cash account, some consistent like Scott from the before, some consistent come from shares, some from resi and or investment properties and some from commercial properties. And we usually try and recreate the person salary, which only takes four or five years. Most of the houses around here, you buy them, they'll spin 30 or 40 grand a year, you need two or three. That's kind of your salary. And then what we try to do is increase the heck out of the capital assets and strategically pinpoint them. So a term deposit or a savings account might become available in a year. And then in that year there's a thing that you need it for. And then the same thing with the dividends. So when that thing comes out, that's just that Sanjay will use that money for your rights or for your whatever. So those big ticket items that you know are coming up, you don't have to stress because there's a mechanism to pay for it. Same thing with the rent, for example. You know, if I have money for the second house, whatever, you pay your interest and your loan and the rest is yours. And then because it's deductible, we might put some money into super or whatever it is. And what you're doing is just affording yourself to skip forward a couple of years if you did nothing and they had 40 grand next year, it's still have 40 grand. So what we try and do is double that to 80 and then you've bought yourself two or three years. And that's the way that we go from, say, a 25 year old retiring at 70 to a 25 year old retiring at 45. Our parents did it. My dad is religious for he only knows property. He said to me that I do, you know Vanguard And also I am in the biggest investment manager in the world and he's like, Yeah, they look pretty good. And I was like, good on him saying that he's got six sentences. He doesn't understand anything about houses and intuitively hated the same thing. So we bought a house that this works on and then that's, that's all I did was he he's been very, very lucky, very protected. But if those houses were for example in Brisbane and we had covered, he's in big trouble. So what we usually try and do is mitigate the risk by buying other things even, which is, you know, you've got indexes, you got a strategy, you got massive, endless emphasis now on ethical investments which are doing quite well. A lot of people are enjoying them. It's very, very doable and it just segregates your future. Yeah. So some of our listeners don't have a lot of money for that for our clients who might be listening to this to give them some hope. So, you know, we talked a little bit earlier around you only need this amount and for some people that will be a stretch. What strategies do you have for people who are maybe earning the pension, maybe earning minimum wage? How did they get started? How do they really start to build some momentum and have some hope over time that they can put some money away? So first thing they do is resist the costs. So if you have your income is fixed that you have to sort of reassess where you're spending it. And then once you find that so we can revisit a phone bellow, you know, like a cheaper petrol, the bus or whatever it is, you know, then we use that income to put her in a position where it creates more capital exposure. So, for example, you know, $15 a week on the bus or whatever, and then you start putting in a cash account, any 5%, all of a sudden it's doing something for you and such a small incremental steps there. And before you know it, it's worth it. It's it's worth something that is yours and helps you along the way and small incremental consistent Ben Before we finish up one of the other things, big on language, big on emotions, big on how our thinking drives our behavior. So often hear people talk about money and that I'm not good with money. I don't understand money. My husband looks after all of the money, that language and that unwillingness to sort of learn about money and and what it can do for you as as a tool. I've seen women particularly my age. So, you know, getting on 56, 60 relationships break down. They find themselves homeless. They find themselves without stable accommodation. They finding themselves living out of cars, you know, finding it really hard. And sometimes even without a job and no income, because maybe they haven't been the income earner in the in the household. So so for anyone, I guess, who goes on, I leave that to my husband. no. You know, that's not something I'm not good with money, so I don't get involved in that part of the relationship. What advice do you have for them? You're not going to like it. It's very nihilistic. He will die and you will have to. So do you want to do it by choice or by. You know, because it's really, really unfortunate does happen. And thing is that you touched on language that tells me that that person has never been supported to learn there's no interest, you know, So if you sit with that person and say, we're going to do this because you're going to need to know, and the sooner we can figure it out, the sooner you can contribute. It changes everything. And a lot of the times we are trading even that together we trade shame as a single. So say if you look at the stats, the divorce rate is the rich men usually die first. There's a high possibility here that something might happen, and when that happens, we need to make sure that you are okay to stand on your own two feet should anything happen for whatever reason, and it brings them into the conversation otherwise. And I'd like we've done a bunch of research on this and not just me. I often don't know why men make decisions the individually affected by a bunch of biases, and not many of them know it. So why the default to making financial decision is on the bloke shoulders, given that they are often unaware of the costs of their own household? I don't know why that happens. Usually will side of the female. You feel like you've got a much better handle on this, is that right? And she'll say No, no, Sarah, you don't make any decisions. We make decisions for you now. And because of that, that brings them in and elevates them. And they make a sense of not supremacy, but somewhat superiority, because they can do the things that we need to do. A lot of the times the men say that it falls to the wayside. It's not my job. A similar thing. The other sense we don't find it here and yet, but it can do better. So we often treat females whether it was sort of like a little bit of elevation in order to make sure that they are fine regardless of what happens in the relationship. And I genuinely think that they appreciate it without antagonizing everyone. Nice emotions attached to money. What what do you notice? Because, you know, I've seen some really heightened you know, money brings anxiety can bring worry. It can bring frustration. What have you seen and how? I don't know. Do we just calm the farm a little bit around around that attachment, those feelings that come with money? That's just management, You know, like if you're going to give bad news, have a solution or minimize those that we'll get through this together, which we do. There's not one case that we've not been able to manage and we're not alone to like everybody in town doesn't. And so as long as you have a solution and you're willing to sit with that person in their time of need, especially around death, the one of the big ones that we often say is somebody comes in and, they say, someone's passed away. But what any of this is, let's just do this trim, it's unrevised. It takes about a year to clean in a state, give or take. And next to no one's prepared for that. If you can show me the amount of people that can fund their lifestyle for a whole year without any input, I'll take my hat. It's a it's not often that it happens. So as long as we have solutions, we can manage those people and as long as we address the root cause. So the big one is that blokes often like to prepare for the future, and my wife included, Look, they need time off. So I've just come back from Melbourne. Not that that part's important, but we got there because Joe and I agreed to put money into an account and when the account got to a certain number of women to Melbourne and it happened to me. Yes. So as long as you have support around those things, you can address the emotion, but if you do it without it, you're in big trouble. Don't leave. Yeah, it's, it's complex. But yet in talking to you today, I feel so easy. You know, when you think 45 minutes that could be the best 45 minutes that you have spent your in your wake in your year and your whatever that looks like in your life. For some people, 45 minutes. I think that's achievable for most patients at a time. Like most of the people, most of the products, not that this is a product bank's, most of the products that we use now, there's nothing wrong with them. So if you use the connect that's on our website, it's free. So what do you have to lose? Again, not that this is May, we're already busy, but anyone can find it and the solution is absolutely there. And it's just a Google click away. Exciting. That is amazing. Ben, we've covered a lot of ground today. We've gone back to the 1900s and we've now look forward, you know, and the change that has happened, you know, throughout that century, but also the exciting changes that we still have ahead. In talking about how young Gen Z is, I think we're up to our Gen Zs and the way that they see the world and the future and the freedom that they want to be afforded through through their life in the choices that they make and the decisions that they make. However, the root of all of that, you know, today at the core of it has been that discussion around money. And for me, when I break it down, I really try and keep emotion away from money personally and just think of it as a tool as you do with any anything else that you have. It can give you freedom, but it but a lot of the time it will it'll be driven from the choices that you make. So whatever path you want to take money on for yourself, you know, there's choices. There's decisions that you attach to that tool and it will go with you, but it could take you down a really bad path or it could take you down a really prosperous path depending on the decisions that you choose to make with it a lot of the time. So is it anything for you, any actions, any key takeaways? And it could be two or three things that you just wanted to leave with our listeners to to take away from this episode. Independence of financial independence is very easy. It's it's not as overwhelming as one might think. Alternate is someone that's willing to support you through decisions and guide you. And then once you do that, not only do you help yourself, but often you help people around you. So if I can, because I'm an academic at heart that studies and low socio economic countries where they found with they survey a thing called spillover effects, I knowledge if you know something and you know it well, how likely are you to share that paper once you're. Yeah. So you've read things as well but they found with children and anyone under 25, so between five and 25 they found that the spillover effect for financial literacy was 71%. So if you're willing to sacrifice and learn that thing that you are, understand uncomfortable about, you will have roughly seven of your ten mates. So by seeking, you actually have for people around you the ability to be better as well. Love that that ripple effect that we can create. You touched on Brené Brown earlier vulnerability bringing vulnerability to it, bringing that that, you know, sometimes we armor up is exactly what she would say, you know, in these conversations because we feel like we've to have our shield and our on to have some of these conversations. And it's about how we strip that armor away. We open up, we be vulnerable, we put it all on the table and we we find a better way, you know, get you good people around you who can support you in some of those key decisions. I heard Ben just say there and and find a way forward because there is hope and you don't need a lot of money to be able to do that. Thank you, Ben, It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you today. Thank you for being so generous with your time and the amazing information that you've shared with us today. We really do appreciate that. It's been incredibly valuable. Thank you for the invitation. So thank you. And thank you for listening. We really do appreciate you tuning in to our Episode ten of Stronger Together. I hope you enjoyed that as always, as any resources from this episode will be available with the link. You have a great week and we will talk to you soon. Thank you. Sometimes the issues we discuss in this podcast series may be triggering for some people. If you've been affected by the topics with talk about today, please reach out to someone for help. Alternatively, you can call Lifeline 24 hours a day on 13 1114, or you can use the chat option on their website. If you live in the Wide Bay BURNETT region, you can also reach out to us at IMPACT Community Services. Please visit Impact.org.au today. 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