Being "Possimistic" and how we can turn the tide on community Violence

Episode 17, with Chief Inspector Grant Marcus & Jo Leverett.

In this powerful episode of Stronger Together, host Tanya O'Shea is joined by two formidable local advocates: Chief Inspector Grant Marcus from the Queensland Police Service and Jo Leverett, Chair of the Advocacy Committee for the Zonta Club of Bundaberg.

Together, they tackle the confronting reality of rising violence in our communities, from the use of weapons to the impact of drugs like ice. However, the conversation shifts from despair to action. The trio explores the critical need for youth-led peer education, the challenges of policing "ghosting" and digital abuse, and the importance of teaching conflict resolution skills to the next generation.

In this episode, you will learn:

• Real-world trends: What police are seeing regarding weapons, drugs, and elder abuse.
• Home Safety: Practical tips to secure your home, including "sneak breaks" and CCTV.
• The "Possimistic" Mindset: A new term coined in this episode describing the balance of concern for current statistics with positivity for future change.
• 16 Days of Activism: Details on the inaugural community walk and the symbolic "Ringing of the Bells".

Resources:

• If you need help, Lifeline offers 24/7 support at 13 11 14.
• Connect with Zonta Club of Bundaberg on social media for event details.

Chapter Headings (Timestamps)

• 00:00:05 – Welcome to Stronger Together with Tanya O'Shea
• 00:03:00 – Introducing Chief Inspector Grant Marcus and Joe Leverett
• 00:04:00 – What is Zonta? 35 Years of Local Advocacy
• 00:07:20 – The Reality of Violence: Weapons, Drugs, and Elder Abuse
• 00:13:09 – Practical Home Safety Tips & Preventing "Sneak Breaks"
• 00:16:30 – Rethinking the Language of "Domestic Violence"
• 00:19:30 – Why Youth Must Educate Youth: The Power of Peer Influence
• 00:24:00 – The Digital Age: Technology, Anonymity, and "Ghosting"
• 00:33:40 – Respect: The Core Solution to All Forms of Violence
• 00:35:00 – Trademarking "Possimistic": Finding Hope in the Stats
• 00:41:10 – "Healthy Endings": Teaching Conflict Resolution Skills
• 00:50:20 – 16 Days of Activism: The Inaugural Walk & Ringing of the Bells

#Possimistic

Thank you for listening to this episode of "Stronger Together" We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained valuable insights.

Stay connected with us:

• Follow us on Twitter
• Like our Facebook page
• Visit our website
• Subscribe to our YouTube channel
• Connect with us on LinkedIn

Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast to stay updated on future episodes. Remember, we are STRONGER TOGETHER.

Transcript

0:05

Welcome to Stronger Together, a powerful podcast series hosted by Impact Community Services. I'm Tanya O'Shea, managing director of Impact, and I have the pleasure of frontlining this little passion project of ours. In the podcast, we dig into some of the many social problems that people are facing within our communities, and we chat with guests willing to have the hard conversations. We want you to be kept informed and updated on the latest information. Yet are also aware that some of the topics address sensitive issues. We acknowledge that this could be triggering or distressing for some listeners, and we encourage you to pause the episode and seek immediate support. Information on where to seek help will be provided at the end of each episode. Before we begin together, we move towards an inclusive future by acknowledging the unceded lands of the Bulla, Gureng Gureng, Waka Waka, Kabi Kabi, Wooli Wulli, Tribalang, Guang and Bali peoples. Now let's dive into this episode of Stronger Together. Welcome to this episode of Stronger Together. Today we're going to be highlighting some events that are happening in our local community, particularly around domestic and family violence. Now, I'm joined by two incredible advocates in our local community, and before I cut over uh to introducing them to you, I wanted to just uh share a little reflection that we've already had as we were preparing for today's presentation, and decided, you know, between the three of us, we're kind of going, oh this is interesting, we're all from the same generation, coming at this conversation about domestic and family violence from a similar lens because we are from the same generation. And today we're going to be talking about our young people within our communities, we're gonna be talking about technology, and it was just one of those for me, as we're sitting there reflecting on that, and I thought, wow, that's really interesting, isn't it, because I feel like I'm talking to some of the experts in our community, dealing, you know, at the, at the coalface with some of these issues, or, and, Complex social problems that we face, but it was one of those moments going, hm, wouldn't it be interesting if we invited some of our younger voices to be part of this conversation and to get some of their thoughts, reflections, ideas around where we can start to find some solutions to this problem. It was just one of my little musings, before we even get started today. So let's cut to the chase. Uh, I would like to welcome Inspector Grant Marcus. uh, welcome, Grant. Thanks so much for coming along today. Thanks, Tanya. Thanks for having me back again. And, um, you know, great to have you back. And Joe Leverett, Joe, I think you've been on once or twice before, which is incredibly, uh, Exciting to have you back again. So, thank you. Thanks, Tanya. Yeah, I was just thinking this morning, I think this might be our 3rd year in a row we've done a podcast. Great. And, and they're important, you know, important conversations. So, Jo wears a couple of hats. Today she's talking to us as the chair of the, The advocacy committee and also the chair of the 16 days of activism, uh, for the Zonta Club here locally in Bundaberg. So, uh, let's get straight into this, so, I'd like you first just to set a bit of a scene for us, Joe, around 16 days of activism. Some people might not have heard of that before, some people might not have heard of Zonta before. So let's just go through that before we cut into some of these other, other matters that we kind of want to explore today. What's Zonta? Well, Zonta here locally has been around for 35 years, can you believe? So it's quite a, a, a, a well established club, uh, Internationally, uh, Zonta exists, so it's all around the world, and, prima primarily it exists to raise awareness about, um, issues that disproportionately impact women across the world, and that can range from anything from domestic and family violence, to climate change, uh, gender, Equality or inequality as the case maybe, right through to um, Cultural issues in certain parts of the world where there are, where there remains um, Uh, difficulties with women accessing, uh, Equipment and uh health, asso associated health um environments to actually give birth safely, uh and hygienically through to um, Still in some countries there are uh child, childhood brides uh and um, young women who are in a situation where, They are, um. In marriages before they're adults, so there's a, there's a range of issues, uh but Zonta, internationally, Has a very um structured approach to the issues that it wants to raise attention and raise awareness of and about, so every year they make sure that the issues uh that are um, that are championed, are relevant and are contemporary and reflect the real issues globally that, Disproportionately affect women, mhm, so it is about women, and uh locally here in Bundaberg, uh we are primarily involved in activities that, uh, raise awareness of global issues. But also we do some positive and constructive activities, such as fundraising so that we can provide bursaries to young women and girls here in Bundaberg to assist them with their educational expenses and um, and things that promote education and activities that will empower women and girls locally. Wow, what an incredible uh legacy it must have within internationally, not just in our community. But across the world, um, quite incredible work that a team of volunteers, cos it is a, a team of volunteers, er, who usually, many of them also have day jobs that they do as well, so it's incredible worker that we see Zonta doing within our communities. So there's part of that work that you do, and as you said, it's quite deliberate, where we put our energy and attention is quite, Deliberate and one of those areas is violence, uh that you spoke about specifically. So Grant, for you, when we're talking about violence more generally, what are we seeing within communities, communities, what are police seeing within communities? Certainly, so we are seeing an increase in the level of violence and the type of violence that's being used. Um, it, it's sad to see people, um, committing violence with weapons these days. It's not uncommon to see people carrying knives and things like that, which is exactly why Jack's Law has been introduced. Um, alcohol and drug-related crime, we're certainly seeing plenty of that in the community. Um, which is sad, but things such as, uh, violence towards older people, elder abuse, also, um, things such as strangulation and those, that type of violence in relationships is on the increase as well. So it's really concerning to see different types of violence in the community increasing and across. Broader spectrum of the community as well, which is, which is quite alarming from our perspective. Hm. And I'm assuming that's not just limited to the Bundaberg community. Correct, you're speaking on behalf of Queensland Police and what, what you're seeing. So what what's reflected in Bundaberg is often reflected in other parts of the community as well, we're not isolated in that regard. Um, yeah, that's definitely the case, yeah. What are some of the signs that people, just general people within the community need to be aware of when it comes to violence? Yeah, certainly, I, I, I think if you're looking at just general violence, you know, um, people starting who are starting to become quite, um, argumentative, um, who are having a, a very short temper on them, um, who, who certainly, um, who physically show that, You know, the um. They're angry, we we we see that a lot with domestic and family violence, that's a whole different ball game, um, cos you're in, it's usually quite subtle, in, in that space where, uh, when they first start out it's quite subtle and then it slowly increases, and, and, and after a period of time the person suddenly realises that their partner's quite violent or quite um, Um, you know, overbearing and those sorts of things, so there is a difference there. Certainly, on, on the streets we can see that uh it can escalate very quickly from something that's quite minor in nature where someone may be walking along a footpath and just bump into someone accidentally, and that can trigger them or they might be, um, in the shops, um, and um someone might push in line or something like that and that can trigger those sorts of things, but, Uh, when you look at like domestic and family violence, it's, it's quite different in a lot of ways in, in that it's such a subtle thing, yeah, and slowly increases over time. So you mentioned weapons uh and certainly in domestic and family violence, you mentioned it can be quite subtle. In the media, we also see a fair bit around drugs and the part that drugs player when it comes to violence. What are you seeing in that space? Certainly, so when we talk about drugs, often we start talking about methamphetamines and those types of drugs such as ice and speed, um, they have really changed um how, how people react. They changed the ballgame for us in a lot of respects. It's how people react to it. Uh, how addictive it is, how, how easy it is to get hold of within the community, as much as we as, uh, a police, um, force are doing everything we can to try and prevent that, it's still out there, um, and trying to rationalise with those people and trying to calm them down when they're in such a heightened state. Uh, it's, it's very difficult and it's highly addictive, so, although, you know, people might get off those drugs when they're, um, you know, removed from society and put into things like institutions such as, um, correctional centres and things like that, uh, and they'll dry out there when they come back, it's just, it's really easy for them to get back onto it, unfortunately. And then we see that revolving door where they're, they're back into that same situation, uh, where there's crime and violence occurring. It's, it's really sad, so. It it means from our perspective we have to hone in on where where the where the suppliers are, who are the suppliers, how is it coming into our community, and what can we do to prevent and and disrupt that behaviour. Yeah, you've certainly got a very hard job. There's no doubt about that. Uh, as, uh, the average person on the street who may have seen some signs, who may be concerned, what's your, Yeah, look, in the first instance, if they feel comfortable, look to report it to the police. So there are a number of ways. If people want to remain anonymous, they can ring Crime Stoppers. Um, that's, that's a quick and easy one for them to do. Alternatively, they ring, ring for the Queensland Police, that's a police link 131-444, so they can ring that number and report that, and that information um. Goes into our police database, into our intelligence reports, and it assists us in identifying what's going on. It might be they may have seen what they thought was some sort of drug transaction occurring or a person that is acting really strangely, um, and it could be a drug related matter. It could also be something else. Uh, it could be a mental health issue that the person's going through or it could be a medical episode of some description, so, um, but it does help us to understand what's happening in the community. And then to start identifying where we need to focus our resources. Hm. When we come, I'm thinking about media reports around, you know, violence, uh break-ins to people's homes now, er there's certainly, I hear people regularly talking about having cameras installed because they're concerned for safety, uh, is there anything from a home safety perspective that you could, That you could, um, I don't know, just share, you know, any tips and tricks for people within their home environment if they're concerned about just even safety at home. Absolutely, so there's some really standard ones that we encourage people to do. Obviously, um the aim is to, you know, make your place less attractive than your neighbour's place, so to to beef up your home security systems, um, so things such as just putting a deadlock on your front door and your rear door. Um, getting security screens installed, um, putting, um, you know, motion sensor spotlights on in, in your house, around the outside of your house, those sorts of things, um, you know, making sure that your neighbours, if you're going away, bring in your wheelie bin or check your mail. Um, CCTV is certainly a bit of a game changer these days for us. It helps us immensely, um, and it's a good deterrent as well. It doesn't deter everybody, but it's certainly, um, Um, certainly people will see that, you know, um, criminals and that will see that sort of, um, security system and, and will look to go to a different address, uh, if you're going away on holidays, um, you know, maybe leaving a light on or, or things like that to make it look like somebody is at home. Um, we have things what we call a sneak break. So what we mean by that is there are people home during the day or at nighttime, they're in the house or in the yard doing different things, and they might leave the front door open or they might leave the back door open. So, um, what that means is that um someone will sneak in through that open door, quickly look around to see what they can steal out of the house and take off with. It could be someone's wallet, their phone, could be their car keys, um, or the, the key to the roller door, with the, with the purpose of then coming back later on at night when the person's asleep to steal their vehicle or something like that, so. Uh, just be mindful of those sorts of things, they're, they're simple measures, and that's for a household. For a business, it's similar types of things, um, trying to reduce the ability of people to come in, particularly outside of hours to break in or during hours so that they can closely monitor what customers are doing when they come into their store to prevent, you know, the theft of their, um, their items. So thank, thank you Grant, some, some great suggestions in there, really appreciate that. So Joe, local advocate, uh you're seeing and hearing lots I, I'm sure within our community, so what are you seeing when it comes to domestic and family violence or violence in general, with the work that you're doing through Zonta? My concern, Tanya, is that we're not making real inroads into this issue. That's my concern, and I base that on the, the, the statistics, the publicly available statistics that still continue to show, uh, that, that this is a scourge, that this is prevalent in all communities in Australia. Um, and it does, the, the traditional, um, and reactive response is to throw more money at the, the, the problem if you like, um, more resources, and clearly over the decades that hasn't resulted in, Changes in people's behaviour. Nor the statistics, you know, coming to coming down. So I think that we need to reconsider the language that we use. I'm not sure that, and I suppose this is a little controversial, but I just, my view is that domestic and family violence is a little bit too narrow. And I think that it excludes many other forms of violence that's happening in our community, which is no less important and has, um, you know, similar consequences. To the victims and to the victims' families. So I think that changing the language is something that needs to be a priority. And I've actually said that before, it's, you know, it's not a new, it's not a, um, a new concept that I have thought and I've written in some of my articles in the paper about this, the language just, I think is not right, it's not, it's, it's not hitting the mark. So that's the first thing, um. I also have a view that We need to make sure that the voices of youth. Are the ones that are driving change. And er to get back to your original comment about generations, and I think that many people in positions of, um, well let's just call it power. Whether they be uh apparent influence actually, influence is probably a better word, uh, they maybe be community leaders, they maybe advocates, they maybe politicians, um, generally speaking, They tend to be of a particular age. And what comes with that age group. Is A different, it's a different mindset, it just is. But there's bias, there's values, there's beliefs that we've brought through from that childhood that are very different to a different generation, right, and they've had different experiences potentially, they've seen different events happen, like there's a whole, there's a whole change, you know. Between generations, I think we call that out, so it's a really good point, I hear you. And it's not a bad thing. I mean that's, but that's just how it is. But I think we just need to go, we need to recognise that that's what it is and therefore that um those things exactly as you said, influence our um, our response to the issue. Whereas I think we actually need to maybe take a more bottom-up approach, which is the opposite. And really understand what is driving this at the youth level. Because it is, it is still happening, and I think the, the message that we're sending about oh we need to educate our youth is hitting the mark. It's probably the other way around, or actually I'd go one step further and say youth need to be educating youth, because the greatest form of influence and results will come from people in that same age group. Walking the walk, talking the talk, that's how I see it. I, I actually agree with you there and I've seen um, I've seen that actually work, so er there's a youth first aid, mental health first aid course, that is delivered and someone has uh introduced it into a community down south, where the young people were trained as youth mental health first aiders. So, uh, what they were noticing within the community is there was an, there was an increasing level of youth suicide within that community, and the community kind of went, this is unacceptable, we need to take some responsibility. What can we do about this? So they trialled a programme. Where they got the school and the educators trained around youth mental health first aid, and then they went, uh, let's just take this now down the next level into the young people, so the young people, peer to peer, The young people, training the young people, and they start to measure what that improvement looked like and they started to see a turnaround in those statistics and they started to see some real change within those young people as well, in relation to their connection with peers, their ability to support, empathise, be compassionate around their peers, so there was some real change in behaviours within that peer to peer. So, I think, I think you're on, I think you're on the right track there. Are we doing it? So there's an example of what I've heard where it's happening in a community. Are you seeing it on the, on the ground, have you got any examples that you could share with us? No. And, and there's silence, like Joe's just kind of looking at me going. Which, which is, which is telling. It's telling us that if you can't speak to it, because you're out in the community, you're doing lots of amazing work in communities. Grant, are you seeing, hearing what's going on youth to youth, peer to peer? I, I actually know of a good, good example. Unfortunately it's not in Bundaberg, but it's certainly something that I think that we could look to mirror, and this is very much along the lines of what Joe's talking about. So this is about youth influencing youth, and I, I, I really agree with Joe around, This idea, it's not just about domestic and family violence, there is so much more going on there to this, and uh educating and changing the the youth is a critical component of that. So in Toowoomba, 22 high schools got together um and it was the men, young men in the high schools at that year 12 level who turned around and went, you know what? We've identified that the way that young men are treating young women is unacceptable and we need to be leading the charge within our schools about making a change. So it was about them coming together and going, look, we need to make sure that the next lot of students who are coming through to year 12, um, aren't repeating the same sort of behaviours and. They produced a video, they went around talking to other kids within the two schools and trying to make some sort of influence there. So this is about year 12 students stepping up and going, we think that we can make a positive change for our community, our school. Uh, and I think that's a wonderful idea and I certainly think there's opportunities to replicate that sort of thing within our community. And going out to out to the students. So, as you know, um Tanya, you know, and you sit on our community working group that we have around domestic and family violence here. So um we've actually now got um a student from the um Central Queensland University who's come on board to try and give us that younger generation, cos we've looked at it and went, you know what, we're all pretty much the same generation, and we're looking at it through our generation's lens. Let's start looking through it of the lens of the younger generation to see what what uh ideas and what um you know, um what things that they can bring to the table that we can use to try and make a positive difference within our community to better influence the the younger generation. And I think you're right, Joe, it, it needs to be the younger generation who are leading that charge cos they they're on the same wave, same wavelength and they understand it. Um, particularly when you start looking at technology and social media and things like that, um, they're at a different level to the three of us sitting at this table. Hm. Oh, absolutely, and when you think about the social media ban that's coming into play 16 years and under, I don't have children that age anymore, uh, but 10th of December, you know, some parents are going to be, I'm gonna call it policing, sorry, maybe I might be inspired, looking across from um Inspector Grant in his police uniform, uh, but, you know, parents, how are they gonna do this? And Joe, back to your point, is it the answer? Uh, no, I don't think it is the answer, um, and I'm not saying that I have the answer, uh, I'm just bringing a perspective of, you know, I think that we need to look at it, we need to look at this problem very, very differently because it's not working. What we've done for the last few decades is not working. Um On the issue of technology, Uh, and when you talk about parents having to, you know, police this issue, it's very difficult for, I would imagine, for parents to do that if they're not knowledgeable about the type of technology that their children are using. OK, and I'm speaking very generally. And, and like you, my children are now a little bit older, so I don't have to, um, deal with that issue, but if I did, uh, I would have great difficulty in policing something that I don't use myself, and therefore I don't have a really solid understanding of, you know, of how young people might get around it or um, You know, I might be hitting hitting the wrong mark in terms of the type of platform that people use, you know, I just don't have that knowledge, so um, The other thing I, I, I, I think just going off what Grant was saying as well about technology and about um, The difference in generations, um, I don't know about, about the two of you, but when I went to, I, I'm pre-internet, so when I went to school there wasn't internet, when I did my university studies there wasn't internet, so I, sorry, and the three of us are going, mhm, yep, yeah it was us as well, in full transparency, so you, so you know, yeah, so, um, What, what we did was we had to interact with people in real life. So that comes with it, some social skills, um, having to have accountability for something that you say to someone, because it's immediate and there's no veil behind it. Fast forward to today, and the internet allows, not just you, but anyone who uses the internet, should they choose, to completely, uh almost like have an alter ego. You can be a different name, you can have a different persona, you can have an alternative life without, Other people in, in um. I in your, um, you know, where you live, even knowing about what you do. So, it's mind blowing, it, it, it, it's mind blowing, and it, and it's coming, continues to come at a rapid rate, right, it continues to come at us rapidly, we're trying to get our heads around it, uh, in our generation, again, coming back to your point around, we're building policy, we're building legislation, we're creating it from a certain generation or generations in trying to influence and change and educate behaviours in younger generations, but we're not always hearing, Getting their input, we're not always hearing from them about, is this the best way that we can do it and our families and parents who have kind of got to enforce it, are not always the best place to be able to understand and and aren't fully educated around that. Technology's tricky, right, and, I don't know, when we're talking about violence and, and, and technology, what are we seeing in that space? Whether it's young people, full generation, let's go, let's go, you know, from cradle to terrible to say, but cradle to grave, what are we seeing when it comes to generation, across the generations, but violence and technology. How is that showing up in communities? Well, something that um immediately comes to my mind if we look at the other end of the spectrum and we look at older, um, older people, for example, uh, all of a sudden, someone will be um charged with accessing child exploitation material, for example. And Um, What I, what I see, what I often hear is I can't believe that that person was, you know, that that's happened. So, that to me is an example of where um, Uh, you know, inappropriate behaviour, something that's a criminal offence, is happening in someone's home, with the use of technology, completely, Um, you know. Oblivious, you know, and, and other people around that person maybe be completely oblivious to actually what's going on, those behaviours, yeah, yeah, completely under the radar, so that's, that's where I see it, um, as one example that just comes to my mind. They can also use um technology to mask and to hide what they're doing, so, you know, messaging platforms that where you send a message and it automatically disappears. So it's not uncommon for people to use that to stalk or to abuse or threaten other people, and immediately that's gone, so that makes it very difficult to gather that information. Um, Certainly from a policing perspective to prosecute people, it's not impossible, but it makes it quite difficult, um, so, you know, persons are saying look this person's threatening me and sending me messages, but the messages are disappearing, so we have to look at using other technology to try and actually access that information or to, To provide that evidence is there's, there's that side of things. People are using technology now in in different ways to, to, um, commit offences and to stalk and to abuse and to to threaten, and they can do it from anywhere in the in the in on the earth. They can literally do it from anywhere. Um, so that really changes things, um, and, and when we start looking at what the future's going to look like with artificial intelligence and everything trying to decipher what's real and what's not real, will be a challenge going ahead. Um, in a, in a lot of respects though, this is the gene, the younger generation are living in that world, that's just their norm. For us looking at that from our, from our generation, we're going oh my God, that's, that's quite different, that's quite scary possibly for us, but for them it's just the norm and that's the world that they live in and they're, they're quite used to it and somewhat comfortable with it. Um, so we, we have to be able to get them to guide us in some ways around how to better manage this, um, so that they get the outcomes that they're looking for. Um, but yeah, the, the, it certainly can be used, it can be used to identify where people are at any given time, so that they can control people, um, control their funds, um, control who they actually speak to, um, you know, what they access online, um, technology can be both a friend, but it can be both, also a foe, yes. Can I also add to that, I think from a, a law and order, um, sort of position and perspective, our, our legal system relies on evidence and relies on quite a high burden of proof for very good reason, and that's a system that we've had for forever, right? Technology, um, can be used as um the Chief Inspector has said, to uh to mask, um, you don't know if it's coming from, um, somewhere else other than Australia, which of course then, creates problems of jurisdiction and enforcement. Uh, being able to prove who has sent something. Uh, and actually obtaining that evidence when as you say, it can be easily, um, erased, you know, or they're just some examples that come to mind. You, we're dealing with a, a world that is moving at a faster pace at which our established systems of law and order, Can keep up with. And that has the result of consequences perhaps not being able to be achieved where they ought to be. You know, having people accountable for their actions. Now our listeners are thinking, geez, she sounds very well informed when it comes to justice. Yes, she is a legal expert, she also wears a cap of uh being a lawyer, so I do actually have law and order across from me, I've just, I've just made that connection, so thank you for that, Joe. I really appreciate that. I, I wanted to come back if that's OK to domestic and family violence, and you've said, you know, that's quite a, that that's just part of violence, right, there's a bigger, there's a bigger scope when it comes to violence and when I, I've been reflecting when you said that, and, It's similar when I think about uh diversity and inclusion and for our team, there is so much when it comes to diversity and inclusion, and if you, culturally as an organisation, we want to consider ourselves as diverse and inclusive, however, there's so many facets to that, so you kind of got to start somewhere, and for domestic and family violence, I know that's just part of it. When it comes to violence, domestic and family violence, is there really any difference? No, no, I I I'll bring it down to one word, respect. It's as simple as that. It's as simple as that. So, you know, Joe talked about it and you've talked about it, it's not just about domestic and family violence, it's about all aspects of violence, it's about violence against the person, it's about violence against people's property and respecting other people's property and then respecting other people. Um, and you know, and, and this is, I, uh, from my opinion, uh, I think this is where we really need to start working with that younger generation around respectful relationships, and that's not just about, you know, um, respectful relationships between a boy and a girl in a high school or anything like that. That's about respecting teachers, it's about respecting. Older people, it's about respecting one another in the schoolyard and those sorts of things, um, going into a shop and being respectful of other people in the shop and their and their property and then things like that, being on the road as a new learner driver, being respectful to others on the road and and those sorts of things, um, you know, in my opinion, we need to get back to really um pushing that message around respect and around respectful relationships. Are we seeing any change in attitudes when it comes to respect, are you seeing any shift in attitudes? I am, I'm somewhat possimistic if I could say that, so, say that word again, possimistic, yeah, no, that word doesn't exist, so I'm gonna use the term possimistic here. Oh. For me it's about saying, you know what, there is concerns around there about the increasing levels, but I'm actually feeling positive that we can make a change, and I'll explain why. So we started, we, we've talked about the really significant increase in the level of domestic and family violence being reported. We're seeing that within the in the Queensland Police Service, we're seeing that here within the Bundaberg region, um, and, and this is nothing that's unusual, um, but it's also interesting to see that within schools they're seeing a similar increase in the level of expulsion within their schools. And that's around the same thing, it's about people not respecting others within the schools and leading to expulsion. So there's a clear link. You, you don't have to be Einstein to understand if there is increasing domestic and family violence, so if there's increasing violence at home, people are gonna see that behaviour, students are gonna see that behaviour and replicate that behaviour uh at schools and in other parts of the society and things like that. So we are seeing that and and that's probably, you know, the pessimistic side of it all, but the positive side is that, The we've identified that as a as an issue within our community. And we've got organisations, particularly the schools here in the Bundaberg region, saying, you know what, we think we can start making a positive change here. Let's start working on this positive relationships, respectful relationship programmes in 2026. Let's look to roll that out across all of our high schools, um, you know, and, and they're looking at a three-tier programme for next year, which is amazing across all the high schools, across all the different age groups, the, the different year levels. Those where it's not being effective, let's take it to the next tier where we can have some small group work, and if that doesn't work, let's look at it on a case by case basis and see what we can do there to help that person because there's obviously some significant issues going on there. So I'm actually positive about that. Yeah, so there's your possimistic there. You heard it here first, folks, possimistic. Trademarked, there we go, well done, thank you for that. So some of these, these different programmes, so running through schools, is there any case studies or anything that you've noticed where, we've actually seen some turnarounds, so we've seen some behaviours that haven't been so good, um, violence, there's perpetrators involved, it might be young people who've been the perpetrators of the violence, but you've actually seen, As a result of programme intervention that change has been created. Absolutely, so, the earlier you earlier you can actually put some um change programmes in place, the better chance you have of a positive influence, and, and we almost see that on a regular basis, it's, it's not always there, but we do see examples where someone's behaved, behaviour has changed. They've been either brought before the court systems uh on a regular basis, uh, our detectives who work with young children, particularly those who are uh in the early phases of offending, will bring them in and they will work with them and um get them to understand that their behaviour is wrong and make changes. So that's almost happening on a daily basis. We do see examples. We don't always have success, um. But that happens on a regular basis and it's terrific to see, um, so, you know, 10 years ago we had 70% of our offending in the Bundaberg region was youth offending. It's not anymore, it's about 30%. So that's a positive for our community. Um, so it, it's good to see that that's the case. Um, so there are, um, there are instances of that. I, uh, I catch up with this, with this mum, uh, every so often, probably 2 or 3 times a year. And she comes and says to me, and her son's grown up now and he's got a job and he's got his own family. And I remember her coming up to me each time and she goes, oh, I'm so grateful for what you did for pulling my son in and talking to him when he was about 17 years of age and starting to get into trouble with the law and sitting down with him and having a really good conversation with him. It scared the bejeebers out of him, but he changed, he started hanging around with different people. He decided to change his ways and everything and really made a big difference and he remembers that now. He, he's in his late 20s, almost into his 30s, and he still remembers that. And they're the positives you'd like to see as a as a police officer, so we do see that, it would be great if we could see that more often, and that's what we aim to try and achieve. So yeah, I, I do think that's happening. Hm, it's always hard when those young people go back into families where there's the uh, you know, the intergenerational cycle of violence, whether it's domestic and family violence, mainstream violence. They go back into that, so there might be some great programmes and other factors, variables that we can wrap around those young people, but, When they're returning, it's very hard, isn't it, not to become entrenched. I, I totally agree, and I, I, I know of examples, and, um, you know, some come to mind immediately, so you know, I've been a police officer for 36 years now, and I am now seeing the next generation, and I, I still remember talking to a young girl who was about 15 years of age, and she was in a, a, a very violent family, um. Situation and environment and I remember saying to her at one point, this is not normal, this is not how normal families behave, um, you know, you need to realise when you grow up, this is, this is not how families sort of interact. Unfortunately, didn't have the influence I was hoping to see, um, and, um, that's now being replicated within her own relationships and with her, you know, and now her children are witnessing similar behaviour, and that's really sad. Yeah, yeah, hope that if you continue to work at it, maybe you can make a difference. And look, you know, if we can run some primary prevention programmes within the school, so respectful relationships, hopefully down the, down the track that may create positive generational change for our community. Hmm. I know there's one solution uh that has been talked about within our community is also around er when it comes to respect, the healthy endings. So relationships, healthy relationships, lovely, great if that can happen, but the reality is there are, you know, a lot of breakups that usually happen as well, and this concept of healthy endings, are really more for um building that emotional literacy, the skills, the personal agency. To be able to respond, you know, if there is a relationship breakdown, tell me about how, how valuable you think that that would be with our young people. I think that conflict resolution skills, Um, are very important for young people to have. And I say that because when I was saying earlier about the anonymity that someone can have behind a screen, You can also deal with conflict in a very different way, in an artificial environment than you can in a person to person environment. And if you, there's a. A term called ghosting, which I only came to know about about 12 months ago, and I had to look it up. But you have ghosting and a whole lot of other things that um that people can do. That you wouldn't necessarily be able to do with someone face to face and, and in a real, real context, so to answer your question about breakups and ending relationships, having the tools through, Resolving conflict. I think are so important, they're they're really important skills to have, so that if that if that um eventuates, and you need to put those skills into practise, then you know what to do. And the harm therefore to the to the person on the receiving end is reduced. And that's what it's all about, it's about harm reduction. Absolutely, and, and self-regulation, we've talked a little bit about today too around violence and some of those behaviours that precede violence, so agitation, high level, you know, just the smallest thing can kind of set them off, and I think it is a skill as well around self-regulation to just come back in. Inwards to go, right. Why is this? Why am I responding this way? Why am I feeling these different emotions? Because that's the other thing I think for people is there's a high level of emotional literacy and people feeling the feels. They kind of don't want to feel the emotion, or they try to block out any emotion that's not just, oh, I've got to be happy. We've all got to go through a whole range of emotions and just being able to call out the emotion for what it is, and That's normal. Sometimes I'm going to feel sad, or sometimes I'm going to feel angry. What's that about? Why is that coming up for me like that? And being able to be able to settle ourselves, um, down. Today's not about meditation and breathwork, uh, but it's very much, I think it's an, it's a, it's a skill that some people haven't been educated around just being able to come back to self and go, right, I need to kind of just calm the farm here a little bit and, and find a way to, to settle myself down. And show up in the best way possible if I'm going to respond. I think um to do that for some people, that's the hard yards, and why would you choose to do that, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Why would you choose to do that if you could just with a click of your mouse. Delete someone, unfriend them. Um, just not respond to their phone calls. That's right, ghosting, yeah, that's right, block, block, ghost, all of those things, you know, that's, that's easy, it's instantaneous. And again, in our generation, it kind of wasn't an option, right? You could have, you know, you had to find a way. To deal with the other person in, in whatever environment that was, if it's a work environment, a home environment, a classroom environment, you kind of needed to deal with it, it's, it's a lot harder for our young people today, there's no doubt about it. Yeah, I would um I would add to that and and you mentioned providing them with the tools. We, we often talk about, you know, we talked about respectful relationships and things like that and and needing to respect people, but sometimes, you know, people get angry, they get upset, um, things will trigger them, like you said, some will have a, a short w and some will have a longer wick, but what we need to do is to also provide them with the tools on how that they can best manage that when it happens, what can they do to de-escalate. Before it turns into something that's quite nasty, um, that they may regret later on and things like that, and some people will need different tools to other people. So, it's good to say, look, you know, we need to be respectful of one another, and I've said that and, and we need to, you know, make sure we we don't, um, damage people's property or, or, or be disrespectful to another person or assault them or, you know, um, Go online and ghost them and do all these other sorts of things, but how can they do that, what tools can they use to help them get through when they're feeling like that, and I think that's a key for us as a community on in giving people that those tools to, to prevent that from happening in the future and how to, how to de-escalate, how to deal with that. Yeah, that I think that's a really important thing that we need to do. Conflict will always exist. We're never going to get rid of conflict and conflict manifests in so many different ways and in so many different contexts, but it's how all of us respond to conflict. In whatever context that is. Correct, and you look at technology, it has sped up society and how quickly we respond, like if someone used to send you a letter in the mail and it would upset you, well you've then got to sit down, you've got to pull out a piece of paper, you've got to write on it, then you've gotta get the envelope, you've gotta put a stamp on it, then you've gotta put it in the letterbox, you've got to drive to the letterbox, put it in there and send it to the person, hope, waited several days. And by then you're kind of over it, you know you've de-escalated these days, you get something, you get an email or a text message, 3 seconds later you've hit a response, and we, we need to teach people just to take a deep breath, you know. You know, when emails were the preferred message, we, what they used to say, draught an email, let it stay there in your draught, come back the next day and have a look at it and sleep on it, sleep on it I had sleep on it and usually the next. Next morning you look at it and probably go, nah, I'll just delete that email and not send it because, you know, I've de-escalated, I've found ways to cope with how I'm feeling and it's OK. But you're right, a lot of the time you don't have that same luxury. It's kind of in that moment when you're feeling the feel and you react rather than, yeah, sitting back in it, reflecting, giving it a moment, letting the emotion pass out of it, and yeah, showing up. It'd be interesting to ask the younger generation, like you said, how do they manage things like that in such a quick um society that we are living in. What's the ways to manage that quickly and effectively. We were given hours and days, they've got seconds almost to try and manage that, that's the challenge. And we also practise it on a regular basis, um, you know, we're not on, we don't, you and I. Don't Grant, you and I don't communicate on social media, we communicate face to face, um, or over the phone, so the, uh, you know, and there, there will inevitably be conflict. It could even be like a conflict over what day we're going to be coordinating something, you know, it could be very, very minor, but we work through it because we've been taught, And we have practised over so many years how to respond to conflict in whatever in whatever shape that that is. So I think it's also the ability for those who haven't had that experience, they need to practise it as well. It's not always something that can just be, you know, here's a fact sheet on how to do it, or here's a YouTube clip on, you know, watch this and then you'll become a, an expert in how to manage conflict. Absolutely not, it's, it absolutely practise, practise, practise. Completely agree, and none of us are perfect. No, we're still we stuff up all the time, we stuff up all the time and then you show up again and you have another go and hopefully it gets better every time you practise it, and I think that underlining theme around respect, in the conversation we've just had, you know, that is also emphasised um as part of that, you know, having respect, For other people and how you're going to respond to them, having respect for yourself, and how you're showing up in your relationships with other people. So, Joe, I'm incredibly, and I'm talking about respect here because I feel like Zonta, highly respected in the communities within which it serves. Uh, the work that you're doing, uh, officially kicks off the 16 days of activism, your latest project, the one that you are, uh, chair. Uh, kicks off on the 25th of November. You've got an intense calendar of events from the 25th of November to the 10th of December. How many years have you been sharing the 16 days of activism now? 50, I, I don't know how she does it, because I know she basically closes down on the 10th of December, and you start planning very quickly after that again, don't you? Well, well, we start planning for International Women's Day. And then usually around um sort of July we start planning for 16 days, but we do it intentionally and with purpose, and this, I would love to get this point across Tanya, we, as Zonians, we actively consider for the following 16 days, a couple of things, what, what lessons have we learned, what could we do better? But also what are the current trends ahead, hm, so every year it's not the same, the same old, same old, it has to keep pace as best we can with what the contemporary issues are, hm, so let's, let's talk about that. I'm super keen to hear, what have we designed, so what has it been designed around for this year, what can we see in our local community? Well, We do try and do things bigger and better every year. Of course you do, I wouldn't expect anything less. And um, the, the big thing for this campaign this year is of course the inaugural walk to raise awareness, which is a collaborative uh venture with uh not just uh the police but with the DFBre matters to me working group. And this is a, uh, a walk which will happen on the Tuesday, the 25th. So this is the launch day of the campaign. So it's kicking off with a, with a, with a, a big event, which is the, uh, the walk, the inaugural walk, which is a, a venture that has come about through collaboration with the police, with Zonta and with the uh DFE Free Matters to me working group. Of which the three of us are members of, um, as are a number of, uh, community leaders and others in in the Bundaberg region. So I'm Looking forward to the walk, uh, I think it will start the campaign, uh, very impactfully because there's nothing more obvious than a public demonstration happening on the street. The bridge will be closed. Now, Grant, sorry, I've just got to stop you there, Joe. Is this the first time ever the bridge, the local bridge has been closed for the first time, for this purpose, yes, so it has been closed before, I think the last time it was closed was actually for a, a dinner, like an outdoor dinner type event. I wasn't here in Bundaberg. At the time, but I'm, I was aware of it, so, and that was quite a number of years ago now, but it's not a regular occurrence, so it requires something, requires something special. So good job team for making that happen, so walk across the bridge. Yes, so it is going to inconvenience some people, but I would say that that's the point of the exercise in part. Uh, there's, uh, a growing momentum already. With people who are going to be coming along for the day, community groups, individuals, so I am, uh, to, to steal the um, the Chief Inspector's term possimistic about the up and coming walk. Loving it, and of course, I mean it, there's more, there's more because at the end of the walk, we then lead into the launch of the campaign and we have the, um, ringing of the bells, which is a very sobering experience, both at the start of the campaign and then as you know Tanya, cos you've been involved all these years as well. We ring the bells at the end of the campaign at 16 days, and for the last 5 years that I've been involved in this, there have always been a greater number of toll, uh, from the, from the bells, which is very, very sad. So for those who don't understand the ringing of the bells, would you like to just give us a bit of a quick overview of what that is? So the, the bells are the, are the peace bells at Christchurch Anglican Church, which is, um, Right, right at, uh, uh, adjacent to Bus Park, uh, most people in the community know where that church is, uh, so the bells ring every year at this time, at the start of the campaign to signify, uh, the women and children who have lost their lives to violence for that year. And then we do the same exercise at the end of the 16 days. So there's silence as those bells ring, and as I said, it's a very sobering experience. It's for some it can be quite confronting. Uh, it's not unheard of for there to be tears from people who attend. So that's, that's just day one. Yeah. So for you, when you were putting this calendar together, what stood out for you as kind of the highlight of the 16 days? Well, aside, aside from the walk, which, you know, is novel, it's new. Um, This year has been different. It's been different because there has been a far greater collaboration, collaborative effort with other community organisations and businesses and groups. Part of that is because we've gone out with that intention for this campaign. To be more inclusive. And not just pay lip service to lip service to inclusiveness, but active inclusion by those organisations. So there's been Um, you know, a concerted effort to, Uh, liaise with like-minded community organisations, businesses, etc. and seek their involvement in the campaign, so that's, that has been different this year. Collaboration is so important at commu in communities, isn't it, working together cos it is, you're right, it's not just about being Zonta events, it's about how the community can engage, get it wrap their support around that, get involved at that community level, so I love that, that's so good to hear. Whether, whether you call it collaboration or partnership because I've heard both of those, um, words used interchangeably. It's It's a, it's a different mindset and collaboration or partnership for me, um. Means that there's a greater chance of the awareness and the messaging, reaching a greater audience, because if you just stick with the, the group that you know, you tend to preach to the converted, whereas if you can collaborate more broadly, you've expanded your reach. So we've been intentional about, Collaboration this year, so when you look at the programme, uh you will see a larger number of groups, That are participating in the 16 days. No, it's great. I think it's um, it's very, very exciting. We will certainly have a copy of this with the link to this episode, so that people can have a look at the calendar of events. If um people are based in Bundaberg, Joe, and they would like to find out more about other, uh, 16 day events that are happening in their community, what do they do? Simply go to the Zonta Club of Bundaberg social accounts, Facebook, Instagram. And uh there's an extensive amount of information already there about the, about the campaign. Excellent, so we'll make sure we add that link for people as well, just to make it really easy. OK. I'm stealing that word. Have a pessimistic. That's no, I love it. That's what, that's gonna be now. Oh, we've had a favourite here today. We're, we're sharing, um, possimistic, the new word of the day, so please go out there and, and and share that within your communities. Thank you. And Tanya, I think Inspector Grant, I think it needs to be a hashtag. Oh, hashtag possimistic, hearing that? There we go, possimistic, loving it. pessimistic, uh, thank you for joining us. Uh, Joe, thank you so much for your time. Always love your ideas, your advice, um, the insights that you bring, so thank you very much, uh, for joining again today. Thank you, Tanya. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Her advocacy, her wise words, um, always truly valued, so thank you. And Chief Inspector, I'm sorry I kept referring you to just Inspector, I'm sure one of your lapel things should have told me otherwise. I kept forgetting the Chief. Chief Inspector Grant Marcus, thank you so much. My absolute pleasure, Tanya. Really appreciate, uh, really appreciate both of your time today, and thank you listeners for joining us today. For this episode of Stronger Together, as promised, we will make sure that we include the links, uh, to the Zonta, 16 days of activism, we will include the link to their socials so that you can tap in if you were, yeah, wanting to join one of the Zonta events within your community, and um hashtag possimistic. Have a great day, please join us again soon. We understand that some topics in this podcast may have been sensitive or triggering. If today's conversation has affected you, please consider reaching out for help. Lifeline offers 24/7 support at 1311, 14 or via online chat. For those in the wide Bay Burnett region, Impact Community Services is here to help. Visit impact.org.au and click the make a referral button to self-refer. Again, thank you for tuning in. If you found this episode informative, please subscribe today. And remember, We're stronger together.